[nrs24985]

I've been meaning to start some conversation on this topic for a while, but while reading the new purchases topic and hearing some of the gripes about Oldies, as well as the recent issues with Cinedelic.

My experience on this forum leads me to believe that the majority of us obtain our records through online means, this may be through online stores such as LITA, Shipping Records, Transmission etc or direct from the labels Mondo, Waxwork, One Way Static and so forth. A few of you are lucky to have brick and mortar stores nearby that stock theese wonderful releases, but many of us aren't. Personally I live in Australia and while I do have some great record stores near me, when it comes to soundtracks I have no choice but to order online. The point that I am getting to is that with shipping, especially to the other side of the world there is an inevitable possibility that the record/s will not arrive in perfect condition, I have been on the most part fairly lucky in this regard, but that said have received some records with cover damage (bends and creases), seam splits to the inner sleeves and the cover as well as records arriving warped, most I believe due to the changes in temperature they experience in the travels.

My question is what do you consider acceptable in terms of condition defects? How serious does bending/creasing to the cover or seam splits need to be before you ask for a replacement? What level of warpage do you consider acceptable before asking for likewise? Or even in the case of Cinedelic where some people had defects causing playback issues, how bad does it need to be before you ask for a replacement copy?

Like me, I am sure many of you share the collector mentality, and the physical beauty of many of these records and their packaging only exacerbates that need to have things in pristine shape, this translates to how I store and keep my records, upright in sleeves in purpose made shelves, however I have found that as much as it may affect my OCD, I have had to make exceptions when it comes to condition in some issues and accept the inevitability of some records arriving with minor condition defects that don't warrant the hassle of seeking a replacement as it is expensive and timely to return a record from Australia to it's point of origin.

I am generally fine with records with minor cover damage, sooner bumps,minor creasing that is slightly visible etc, I have no issue with inner sleeves having seam splits, even pictorial ones, and also have no issue with minor seam splits, generally where the record doesn't completely tear through the cover. I have come round to accepting, in the case of very rare or limited releases, ones that don't exceed 15cm or so in length.

When it comes to warpage, I can deal with a minor warp that doesn't cause any play back issue or severe jumps of the needle, generally these are warps that aren't immediately visible to the naked eye when holding a record in your hands, but become noticeable when it spins on the turntable. again the limited nature of a release may dictate what I deem acceotable, but warpage that is blatantly obvious to the eye when holding it in your hands, or that has a bowl like effect are definite send backs.

Pressing defects that affect play are without fail, in my eyes, reason to seek a replacement.

I have to say too, that my experience with the labels on this board, any time that I have required a replacement they have been more than helpful and gone above and beyond to help.

So what say you all? Interested to hear others thoughts on these issues which I am sure have affected all of us at one point or another.

[texasvinyl]

I buy way too many records to stress out about minor sleeve damage from transit. Life is too short, and time too precious. If I'm buying new vinyl I often request the seller unseal the records and ship the records outside of the sleeves.

The only time I look for a return/exchange is when I get a record that isn't playable, there's a defect (missing a disc, double Disc 1, wrong disc, severe off-center stamper), or if the record was lost or severely damaged in transit. A record clamp will make most dish warped LPs play flat.

[Occhionero]

I live in Europe and nearly every 2nd delivery from the US comes with damages (mostly the vinyl inside damges the jacket). Now, it depends on how visible is the damage. A breakthrough would be a case for a sure replacement. I accept minor damages if it is not a super limited 300 or less copies edition. This wouldn't give justice to a high collectible item (had this problem with the "Lost Themes" limited edition)

I am pretty good in restauration of black jackets with a black felt-tip pen.

When I can order the record inside Europe I accept higher prices to avoid the records long journey. What makes me angry is that some online stores still poorly pack their vinyl. I know that international shipping is a bitch, but when I pay around 40$ and more for S+H, I expect the record packed as well as possible.

Strangely, there has never been problems with delivery from Japan!

But one thing I have to say. The service of our well-known labels and retailers is and was always superb. The guys from OWS, Invada, Mondo, Suzy from WW, Spencer, and a lot more are doing a great job!!!!

[chiefbrody]

I have a lot of trouble with this too. I've not been collecting vinyl for too long (a few years). I mostly buy online, and I estimate that probably 30-50% of the records I buy are warped to some degree, excluding 180g records, which I've never had a problem with. In the last couple of months I seem to be very unlucky - at least half have been warped, and that's from a range of suppliers, so I can't blame specific mailers, etc. Some of them (esp DW releases) were hard for me to find, so I've not even considered returning them.

I tried to work out if there was a generally accepted level of warping - from reading online some people have zero tolerance; others accept warping as long as it doesn't affect the sound. I've become more pragmatic about it - I haven't returned a record in ages, despite quite a lot of warped records. I would say only one was, in hindsight, completely unacceptably warped, but I just couldn't be bothered returning a record that only cost £13 to Germany for an exchange. I've heard (might not be true) that some labels won't take returns so it basically is a complete loss to retailers, so for that reason I'm reluctant to return these days unless it's really bad. I'd be interested to know at what stage the warping occurs - at the pressing plant or at some later stage in transit.

I recently invested in a record clamp (Michell), and it makes a lot of difference to the warped records, except the one that's badly warped. It makes me feel much better knowing my needle isn't jumping up and down all the time.

In terms of cover damage, etc, I've been lucky enough to not receive any mangled covers. A few dings, a couple of tears (it annoyed me that the top of my Lost Themes cover was split - big white tear across a pitch black cover), plenty of seam splits on inner sleeves. I tend not to be too bothered about external damage as long as it's minor.

[pmaligaya]

I buy records mostly online, and the worst offenders for me when it comes to warped records are record labels doing re-issues of their catalogue titles (looking at you, UMC and Fantasy). I once bought online from a reputable online record retailer the Charlie Brown orange vinyl, and it came not only warped, but also with one portion of one side looking like there was some melting that happened. I don't think that happened during shipping, it was obviously a factory defect. Way to go for quality control. Same thing for that rainbow-colored Bob Marley reissue, that almost caused my tonearm to jump. That one I think was caused by poor packaging causing warpage, since the records were thick, but the packaging was thin, and the shrink wrap was really really tight, causing the sleeve to bend. (The best for me when it comes to packaging are Mobile Fidelity and Analogue Productions because they understand how thick sleeves should be and how to go about the plastic wrap). I have learned my lesson -- if it's a catalogue title, I now just buy used/original pressings, and they probably sound better. About those two titles I mentioned, I really wanted those colors, so I bought them again. Unfortunately, since I live in Asia, it would have been more expensive for me to re-ship said defective records and get replacements from the US, so I double-dipped on those particular reissues (thankfully the second copies were both ok).

My pet peeve in buying on Discogs is sellers not being accurate on the condition of both the record and the sleeve, especially the record. Even if I try to buy only from sellers with 99.++ rating and who rate their records at least NM/NM, usually there's always something, like a nick or a scrape that conveniently got left out in the description. Dirt and fingerprints are ok, since records can easily be cleaned. But a one-inch seam split on the sleeve that's obviously not caused by shipping?

On eBay, beware of sellers who are not really experienced record dealers but more like memorabilia sellers or those selling estate finds along with old clothes, books and stuff (look at the rest of the items they're selling). Some of them don't know how to pack records well, and they don't know how to describe the condition of records accurately. Photos can only do so much.

I buy a lot of stuff from Juno.co.uk, and I once had an order for a single record, and it came in two pieces, because the record was not packed tightly, so it was damaged during shipping, when something (perhaps a heavy box) pierced through the record mailer, and the heavy cardboard sleeve, breaking the record. However, when I order two or more, the packaging is just right. So I'm not placing orders for a single record again. (Juno did not make me return the broken record, they immediately just shipped me a new one for free. I love them.)

[zuko]

Haven't used Juno for years, so don't know if this is still true, but their packaging used to be shocking – it was just two pieces of corrugated cardboard glued round the edges to form a parcel, which would invariably also trap the corners of sleeves.

[tim28212]

I once had a record shipped to me from England in a black plastic bag. All 4 corners of the jacket were creased and the vinyl was a bit bowl shaped but I managed to flatter it out a bit and it played fine.

[Vapourmeyer]

Juno have always been good as far as i'm concerned. I also really like a seller on Amazon called 'All Your Music'. If you ever see something on Amazon you like no doubt they'll sell it and sell it cheaper too, and the packaging is always good from them. For me both Clay Pipe music and Mondo are the best packaging wise. Sorry, going a little off topic there. I guess they'll always be mis classification of quality, i just make sure that returns are always accepted.

[bpwlogan]

I've been pretty lucky buying through the mail. I was buying before the Internet when independent labels(SST, Discord, Touch & Go. Ect..) would do mail order through catalogs. If you received a bad copy back then you pretty much had to just deal with it. I got a warped one once in a while that's about it. I grew up in a big city too so there were plenty of record stores around to pick up other lp's. As far as corner bends or splits that's just part of the business when sending records in the mail. It's amazing we don't get more damaged records the way these packages are handled in transit. The soundtrack resurgence of the past couple of years is really a mail order thing. I'll see a Death Waltz record every once in a while in a store. That's about it though. Independent record store owners are looking for fast turnover. They might pick up a few extra soundtracks on record store day for a quick turnover. I'll give Death Waltz, Mondo, WW, OWS, ect... one thing they package their records about as good as you can for shipment to single sellers.