[Mateo Sanboval]

In a vacuum, Havershaw, I'd recommend a Nag as well. I have used three of them and they all sound great to my ear. Lush, full, and warm. Also, pretty forgiving of subpar pressings. I've used an Orotofon Blue extensively and, while it is a very nice cart in my opinion, it has some issues with the highs that I eventually tired of. I do not have much experience with AT carts outside of vintage entry level offerings so I'm afraid I'm no help there. I think that if you want to avoid setting it up yourself or paying someone else to do it, I'd take McQueen's advice and ask your dealer what they recommend under the circumstances.

[havershaw]

Well, not that I don’t trust his opinion, but I’m just starting to think that we just value different things in a cartridge?

I just changed back to my Ortofon 2M Red (the entry-level cart) and there are the mids I was missing. Super weird.

I will say that the imaging and depth was a little better on the blue. So maybe there’s something that’s better than either of these, but is voiced a little more similar to the red?

They’re closed on Sunday so I’ll have to check with him on Monday.
And I can certainly buy an MP-200 (it really sounds like what I’m looking for) but it’ll be $125 for him to set it up. The setup is free if I buy from him. I’m not terribly interested in setting it up myself because I assume I’ll screw it up. Seems like math stuff, which I suck at.

[Mateo Sanboval]

If you really like the Ortofon sound, the Bronze is a noticeable step up from the Blue, though I think the blue is a bigger step up from the Red. Again, just my pair of pennies so grain of salt, etc.

[havershaw]

If you really like the Ortofon sound, the Bronze is a noticeable step up from the Blue, though I think the blue is a bigger step up from the Red. Again, just my pair of pennies so grain of salt, etc.

Well, I’m not sure if it’s so much that I like the Ortofon sound - it’s just all I’ve ever had on my turntables since I got into vinyl, so it’s all I’m familiar with.

Blue felt like a big step up from the red, in terms of depth and stereo separation. But it does seem a little bright (this is just with straight vinyl rips - I can obviously compensate on my amplifier but I’d like something that’s a little more true for rips and analyzation in general).

For orchestral and a lot of library, this hasn’t bugged me really, but anything sort of rock (especially 90s alternative stuff), it’s a little bitey on top and is a pinch scooped in the middle.

That’s why that MP-200 sounds great - seems like folks are saying it has great soundstage and separation but it’s got good mids and it’s overall a little warm.

[static14]

In AT carts I’ve also read really positive things about the AT150SA and the VM750SH. Both come in a bit under your price range and should smoke the Ortofon red and blue.

[inksb]

Any thoughts on the Nagaoka MP-150?

[static14]

The 150 is a nice cart. I got one for my dad years ago. It’s on his main table.

[havershaw]

Thanks, @static! Super useful suggestions - I think I’m going to try one of those ATs. Seems like the 150 might be what I’m looking for.

[inksb]

I think I may try out the Nagoaka MP-150. Any place that you recommend ordering from @static? It seems to be around $400 from a few places in the US but around $300-$350 on ebay from sellers in Japan

[static14]

@ink If you can save some bucks go with one of the ebay sellers. As long as they’re on the up and up.

[havershaw]

Argh. That AT150SA is discontinued. Trying to figure out what the replacement would be.

[static14]

VM750SH looks like it.

[havershaw]

Yeah, my concern is that I’m seeing a lot of people say that that one is a little bright. But I’ll see what my shop has.

Also, I’m hoping for a cartridge that can handle playing records that are a little beat. Some of my Capitol Hi-Q records are a little trashed but I don’t know if I’ll ever find better copies.

[inksb]

@ink If you can save some bucks go with one of the ebay sellers. As long as they’re on the up and up.

so I found a MP-200 for $360 from a seller on ebay that's sold over 160. I may take the plunge on that. Any recommendations for pre-amp to pair with it? I currently just use the stock pre-amp built into my receiver.

[static14]

The nice thing is with fine line, shibata, hyper elliptical, etc. stylus you’re usually reaching a part of the groove that hasn’t been damaged by other bigger older (worn) stylus types. So most do a good job with surface noise.

As far as AT carts being bright? I’ve had a bunch over the years, and they tend to be more detailed than many other carts, but I’ve not run into any that were really overly bright, or harsh.

[static14]

@ink If you can save some bucks go with one of the ebay sellers. As long as they’re on the up and up.

so I found a MP-200 for $360 from a seller on ebay that's sold over 160. I may take the plunge on that. Any recommendations for pre-amp to pair with it? I currently just use the stock pre-amp built into my receiver.

What’s your budget on the phono stage?

[havershaw]

@ink If you can save some bucks go with one of the ebay sellers. As long as they’re on the up and up.

so I found a MP-200 for $360 from a seller on ebay that's sold over 160. I may take the plunge on that. Any recommendations for pre-amp to pair with it? I currently just use the stock pre-amp built into my receiver.

@inks I saw that same one and I’m still considering that one, though I’ll have to tack on another $120 for setup. But may try AT first.

[havershaw]

The nice thing is with fine line, shibata, hyper elliptical, etc. stylus you’re usually reaching a part of the groove that hasn’t been damaged by other bigger older (worn) stylus types. So most do a good job with surface noise.

As far as AT carts being bright? I’ve had a bunch over the years, and they tend to be more detailed than many other carts, but I’ve not run into any that were really overly bright, or harsh.

Yeah I was gonna ask about different stylus types. Really feels like there’s conflicting info all over the place.
I mean the good thing is that you seem to listen to a lot of similar stuff. I think the problem with the guy at my local shop is that he’s mostly an old jazz guy and I’m not terribly sure we’re on the same page in terms of personal taste in sonics. So I really appreciate all of this info.

Really what I’m looking for is great soundstage, detailed but not bright, less sensitive to surface noise or wear.

[static14]

A lot of positive feedback on the VM750SH here.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/ ... ge.689458/

[havershaw]

Yeah that is looking pretty good.

My shop would have to order that - the guy there vastly prefers MC to MM so in AT, that’s all he keeps in stock.
I’m not sure why I’m hesitant to move to MC, but I feel like I am.

Anyone have any experience w MC vs MM?

I’ve used a lot of examples of both over the years. If you make the jump to LOMC go for it. :)

What cart(s) did the owner recommend at your price point?

[Mateo Sanboval]

Havershaw, you shouldn't have an issue with brightness on that AT VM750SH. Especially if the highs/sibilance/igd of the Ortofon Red and Blue didn't bother you. Furthermore, I'd say the the AT might be a better cart for you that the Nag if you're concern with the Ortofons was accuracy for needle drops. I think the Nag colors the sound more. I like the color a lot - it's currently my favorite color - but it shades on the warm side of "accurate" to my ear. Static may disagree, but my understanding is the AT's play it down the middle a bit more.

Inks, unless you're desparate for a phono stage upgrade, that Nag is a chameleon and pairs well with a lot of gear including decent integrated phono stages. In fact, if you like the sound of your phono stage now, I'd consider going further up the Nagaoka tree and spending the money there. Even if you don't get a pricier Nag, get a feel for the sound of that cart first in the system that you know and then decide how, if at all, you want to improve on that sound.

[havershaw]

Havershaw, you shouldn't have an issue with brightness on that AT VM750SH. Especially if the highs/sibilance/igd of the Ortofon Red and Blue didn't bother you. Furthermore, I'd say the the AT might be a better cart for you that the Nag if you're concern with the Ortofons was accuracy for needle drops. I think the Nag colors the sound more. I like the color a lot - it's currently my favorite color - but it shades on the warm side of "accurate" to my ear. Static may disagree, but my understanding is the AT's play it down the middle a bit more.

My Red has nice smooth top end - it’s not as detailed as the Blue, but it also doesn’t get harsh like the blue.
I have noticed that red label DeWolfe LPs always tend to feel a little scooped and bright compared to the multi-colored label versions of the same titles (Band 8 being a good example - some horns on The Gonk are painful on blue, but I assumed it was a mastering issue on DeWolfe’s end).

[havershaw]

I’m wondering if I should just get the cheapest AT MC cart they have ($250-ish) and see if I even like the MC vibe.

[inksb]

Havershaw, you shouldn't have an issue with brightness on that AT VM750SH. Especially if the highs/sibilance/igd of the Ortofon Red and Blue didn't bother you. Furthermore, I'd say the the AT might be a better cart for you that the Nag if you're concern with the Ortofons was accuracy for needle drops. I think the Nag colors the sound more. I like the color a lot - it's currently my favorite color - but it shades on the warm side of "accurate" to my ear. Static may disagree, but my understanding is the AT's play it down the middle a bit more.

Inks, unless you're desparate for a phono stage upgrade, that Nag is a chameleon and pairs well with a lot of gear including decent integrated phono stages. In fact, if you like the sound of your phono stage now, I'd consider going further up the Nagaoka tree and spending the money there. Even if you don't get a pricier Nag, get a feel for the sound of that cart first in the system that you know and then decide how, if at all, you want to improve on that sound.

Thanks for the input. I'm perfectly happy with what I have, it's good to know it pairs well with just about anything. I've never had a pre-amp in my set up so it seemed like the obvious next step up for future improvements.

@ink If you can save some bucks go with one of the ebay sellers. As long as they’re on the up and up.

so I found a MP-200 for $360 from a seller on ebay that's sold over 160. I may take the plunge on that. Any recommendations for pre-amp to pair with it? I currently just use the stock pre-amp built into my receiver.

What’s your budget on the phono stage?

I'd like to keep it between $200-$400. This would be a future purchase not something right away. Mostly just looking for suggestions that may be a good upgrade eventually.

[static14]

Havershaw, you shouldn't have an issue with brightness on that AT VM750SH. Especially if the highs/sibilance/igd of the Ortofon Red and Blue didn't bother you. Furthermore, I'd say the the AT might be a better cart for you that the Nag if you're concern with the Ortofons was accuracy for needle drops. I think the Nag colors the sound more. I like the color a lot - it's currently my favorite color - but it shades on the warm side of "accurate" to my ear. Static may disagree, but my understanding is the AT's play it down the middle a bit more.

Inks, unless you're desparate for a phono stage upgrade, that Nag is a chameleon and pairs well with a lot of gear including decent integrated phono stages. In fact, if you like the sound of your phono stage now, I'd consider going further up the Nagaoka tree and spending the money there. Even if you don't get a pricier Nag, get a feel for the sound of that cart first in the system that you know and then decide how, if at all, you want to improve on that sound.

Thanks for the input. I'm perfectly happy with what I have, it's good to know it pairs well with just about anything. I've never had a pre-amp in my set up so it seemed like the obvious next step up for future improvements.

so I found a MP-200 for $360 from a seller on ebay that's sold over 160. I may take the plunge on that. Any recommendations for pre-amp to pair with it? I currently just use the stock pre-amp built into my receiver.

What’s your budget on the phono stage?

I'd like to keep it between $200-$400. This would be a future purchase not something right away. Mostly just looking for suggestions that may be a good upgrade eventually.

I’m with @Mateo. It’s always a good idea to change one thing at a time. Spend some time with the new cart, decide if you dig it. Then if/when you get a new phono stage you’ll know what changes about the sound and if you like it or not.