[Bezulsqy]

Wanted to place this as a comment in the Stylotone thread, but after the post got longer decided to create a new topic.

One of the comments on that thread (about the Stylotone release) on FSM was from La-La Land:

That said, I'm not the biggest fan of vinyl. We tested the waters last year and it tanked bigger than anything we have ever released (and we released Mortdecai!). We ended up dumping the product on our distributor who was glad to take them off our hands... and they want more (we made pennies off the deal). Right now we only have 3 scheduled for 2016...and two of them are more of a "collectible" than a real LP release. The up front cost and the profit margins just aren't there in my opinion (not too mention the storage space)...but who knows about 2017?!

MV

I think they are referring to their release of https://www.discogs.com/Carmen-Dragon-I ... se/7718717

I find this interesting. The part about their release tanking as well as the announcement of 3 new vinyl releases for 2016.
Would another label do better with that release? Or were the expectations of selling a certain amount too high?
I have the idea that the market for soundtracks in general is small, and the market for new vinyl releases of soundtracks a lot smaller. On top of that: the market for the release of Invasion of the body snatchers is going to be even smaller. Like really small...

I can imagine that the profit margin for vinyl releases is really small. Manufacturing costs will be a lot higher than those of a cd. Maybe this is the reason Waxwork is asking $40 for their new double LP's in stead of the $35 6 months ago.

I would love to hear an insider explain the pricepoint of a release: license costs, manufacturing costs, distribution, etc...
How many copies do you need to sell to break even?
Do you use the profits of other releases to release records you really want to release even if you know those ones will only just break even? I am thinking of some records from Death Waltz with a run of only 500 and that are still available.
I applaud all the labels releasing those beautiful records like The Bloodstaind Window, The Mask, Street Trash, Slime City,Phase IV and what have you. And I hope vinyl sales keep rising so the business of releasing these gems is sustainable. They will get my money for the foreseable future :-)

[Dollarhyde]

Im not in the industry but I think there is a pretty sharp point when the soundtrack market can become saturated, by that I mean once a specific number of OST vinyl releases (across all labels) have been sold (to people like us) then there is very few people buying beyond that.

I guess this was cool when there were just a couple of fledgling labels around as they had the whole market to themselves hungry for each release, but now there are so many labels and so much stuff coming out it's impossible for this relatively small market to buy everything that is being released, as much as we all would love too.

[Pain_Bubbles]

I think "Invasion of the Body snatchers" wasn't a very good pick to begin with. It's a great soundtrack and I love the vinyl release, but often get the Idea that a lot of people here (where the vinyl fans are at) tend to favor synth/cult stuff over ancient orchestral scores.


I have to say that I am also somewhat puzzled: Just a few years ago you could buy new records of fine quality for under 20€, but now labels are struggling to make a profit at 40-60€ per record?
Something must be going on: Movie companies got a whiff of the soundtrack vinyl revival and charging extra for licenses? Pressing plants overcharging due to lack of supply?

[monsterworship]

2013/2014 was a pretty great year for soundtracks, there were only a handful of cult soundtrack labels, so it was easy for fans/customers to buy multiples versions of every release. Flippers take notice. Sales were great.

2015 a lot of new labels and existing bigger players started getting back into the vinyl market because they saw the "success" of what all of the cult labels were doing, so naturally more labels, more releases, more variants, market flooded. People have to reconsider their buying habits to keep up. Sales declining.

2016+ even more labels, more vinyl offerings. Stagnant sales. increase in retail prices to adjust for sales?
The fan base is small but stable.

I have a day job, so I don't have to survive off of the success of my label (Lunaris), so I think I am able to take more risks on releasing more obscure titles and doing things with the final product regarding cost that I don't have to pass on to the end customer.

I'm sure every label has a different perspective.

[Little Walter]

As a distributor, I'm becoming more and more beleaguered by soundtrack labels charging too much per release. From Stones Throw, single LPs are $11, double LPs $14; from Fat Possum, single LPs are $9, double LPs $13; Mondo titles at LITA are $22-$34 (wholesale, black vinyl), and aren't nearly as profitable, which is why we, unfortunately, don't carry their records. This isn't the fault of the labels, but of the system. No one's arguing the vinyl industry's a cash cow. Soundtrack labels specializing in wax releases do it as a labor of love. Larger companies getting back into the game like Silva Screen are going to get impatient and hopefully find something else to do.

[Hatter313]

I think what La La Land and some others fail to realize is that the people out there like us are actually a combination of two specialty markets, not one. Yes, we are soundtrack enthusiasts, which is a niche to itself, BUT we here are also vinyl collectors who value fidelity, packaging, and the overall sensation of vinyl listening as well. Until the last few years, most of my wax collection was original pressings of things as well as non OST stuff i'd pick up here and there, but since the boutique labels started popping up and the market has come back, i'd say my collection is now almost 50/50 new releases and older pressings, both OST and non OST.

I've always been a soundtrack fan, since I was a kid. but I almost never purchase CDs from la la land or Intrada these days if a digital release is available, because I reserve any physical listening for wax. Most of the soundtrack people are not wax people i think, and so to them they see this as a, and i'm using the term they would use so excuse me, "Hipster Fad" that is eating into their hobby, while not realizing that an entire subset of soundtrack fans have always been into wax and always will be.

There's an appreciation for the boutique nature of these things that keeps us buying Mondo, OWS, DW, Lunaris, WW etc. and frankly to me La La Land's offerings felt like a cynical cash grab to me, and if i remember correctly was even confirmed as such in an interview shortly before they announced it (that may have been intraday, forgive me if I am mistaken). and i have that invasion pressing, and i think its great, but its nothing compared to what our friends here have put together, and thats because they understand the whole of why we spend all this money on a space eating, time consuming, money draining hobby like this. :)

That and the internet is filled with spoiled, angry people with terrifying entitlement complexes.

[Pain_Bubbles]

@Hatter313: Haven you seen the Lalaland release of "Invasion of the Body snatchers" ? It's extremely well done, even has a seperate "page" inside the gatefold for the liner notes, much like some of the old 50's/60's releases.

The vinyl is quiet and sounds great, it is cut a little hot, making it not the easiest record to track for some cartridges, but that is also true of many 50's/60's soundtrack releases.

Both fidelity and packaging are top notch on this release, I think it's the choice in music that made it hard to sell.

[Hatter313]

@Pain

Oh I think its a great release, I have it and enjoy it quite a bit. My feeling on it wasn't so much for the actual product, which i think they did a stellar job on, but more for the attitude that seemed to lead to it. that may not have been clear from my earlier post.

I think wax OST people liked that package a lot, but La La land is also used to pressing 3000 copies of a CD and having them fly off the shelves, so i'm sure they expected a similar reaction.

[Pain_Bubbles]

Yes I think they might have overestimated polularity, and they certainly could have promoted it a little more.

But what would have happened if , for example they had taken Paul Mccollough's "Night of the living dead" and made that into a deluxe vinyl set? (assuming they could release this since it came out on Numenorean, Lalaland's predecessor label)

I've been buying records and soundtracks for over 25 years and never knew I was missing "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"
It appears to me they made a product aimed at "STBC" people, with music for the FSM crowd.

[Hatter313]

i like that assessment

[monsterworship]

But what would have happened if , for example they had taken Paul Mccollough's "Night of the living dead" and made that into a deluxe vinyl set? (assuming they could release this since it came out on Numenorean, Lalaland's predecessor label

been wanting to release that one myself actually :)
essentially that CD was all rerecorded for their release because the masters were lost?

[Hatter313]

Really? thats' pretty interesting.

[deathwaltz]

I think the problem is that while say myself and others only focus on vinyl with the odd CD / Digital release here and there certain companies that left vinyl long ago saw it as an opportunity to make some easy money , the thing it , it isn't easy , if it was someone would have founded DW years before i came up with the idea , it's expensive , time consuming and bloody hard work. I also feel you have to pick your titles very , very carefully .
Also read the remarks about vinyl from that label on FSM and if I am honest I just thought you are approaching this in the wrong way , doing something to stop perceived rivals from doing it rather than doing it because of the desire to release something you desperately want yourself.

4 years ago there were two labels doing the vinyl reissue thing with new art now there are 20+ , add in game labels, Manga labels etc etc and it isn't hard to figure out why certain things do not hit the marketplace running. One thing that always narks me about that FSM board is the hatred of vinyl though , I have been tempted to join to get correct someone on how this isn't a hipster fad and back it up with figures etc etc , but I can never really be bothered as I know I'll never change their minds ....

[FulciLives]

Long story short, the soundtrack lp's are way over priced.

Don't think it's out of the norm to see a soundtrack by DeathWaltz/Mondo or anybody else really for $34.99 in a local shop. Buy 2 Lps add on the tax and you've damn near spent $100. Think about that for a second, you went to the record shop bought two new lp's and it was about 100$. That's pathetic.