[lazyben]

This is partially inspired by a recent post from Pain_Bubbles and partially by own experiences of late.

Pain_Bubbles wrote in the Video Game Soundtracks thread:

"The price of records has skyrocketed, the pressing quality is at an all time low while aquiring these “art objects” becomes more and more problematic with all the continent/convention/store exclusive releases.

I realise a lot of my comments on this board have not been exactly inspiring or positive,for whitch I apologise to those that do appreciate current releases, but as a long time soundtrack collector this stuff just breaks my heart. I recently canceled most of my pre-orders because of my issues with new vinyl releases and am seriously considering just calling it quits alltogether."

I am not quite at that point and I'm going to ignore the pricing/exclusives aspects and any quibbles about mastering but I too am somewhat despairing at the quality of many pressings these days. I've been buying records at a rate of 500+ a year for well over 20 years at this point and I feel the pressing quality has really nosedived of late. It appears that there is zero quality control at some plants. I am guessing this is a function of the vinyl revival and the excess of pressings over plants and lack of skilled operators and maintenance for the presses due to the previous near extinction of the vinyl record.

I am not intending to throw anyone under the bus here so I am not going to mention any names but I have had terrible luck with some of the labels here over time. Fortunately the customer service side of things has sorted out replacements, sometimes more than once for a release, but they're probably as sick of me as I am of problems.

I know records are by nature imperfect but I feel safer buying a sealed or mint 40 or 50 year old record from a trusted seller (ie not oldies.com or some random halfwit on ebay) than a current release. That can't be good. I'm not even really talking about technical issues like mistracking grooves but easily spotted stuff like multiple deep gouges, huge chunks of missing wax, warping, off center pressings, more scuffing and scratches than a 4 year old's shoes, paper stuck in the vinyl (and coming out both sides) and other nonsense like that.

I know this is fairly unlikely to happen but I would be interested to know where all the labels get their stuff pressed so we can look for patterns. The only plant I am aware of actually trusting is Pallas in Germany where Neil Young gets his stuff done. Those pressings are (ridiculously?) overpriced but the quality is fantastic in my experience.

Is this only going to get worse? Do I need to replace my expensive equipment with a crosley so I can't tell the difference? Maybe I just need to drink more?

[Pain_Bubbles]

For me the pricing and exclusivity relate directly to the pressing quality:
When I buy a 15€ record it's much easier to write off as a loss, and when I buy a 45€ record (sadly a very normal price as of late)at a local (web)store, if it turns out to be a dud, I can return it, no questions asked.

Now both of this can be annoying, but it's when ordering an expensive record directly from a label that it gets really bad: Returing overseas is problematic, Labels often don't answer emails and replacements are not always available.
I've lost many 100's of € this way, and spent many, MANY 100's more on records that, when you looked at objectively, and compared to pretty much any mainstream release from the mid 50's to the late 70's should have been destroyed as "defective".
Returning them is often pointless, problems like surface noise and non-fill are often present in entire pressing runs.

I also don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but quality control isn't just lacking at the pressing plants, labels also have a responsibility towards their customers: When you receive a defective batch of records you should return them, not sell them on to your customers hoping they won't notice or care. This last issue is a particularly tricky one: A record label is a bussiness, and even though they might be qucik to replace faulty copies, in the long run they will adapt their prices to compensate for returned records and sustain a profit. This mechanism has a pretty disturbing effect:
The worse the quality of the records get, the more the prices will go up.

Concerns about pressing quality are pretty rare on this message board, but people have to realise that as long as you pay for this stuff, it's not going to change. Pressing plants are not going to raise their quality as long as labels accept clearly faulty batches of records, and labels are not going to start returning batches of records if customers keep buying their stuff.

There's always going to be some audible noise in vinyl playback, even the best records have some, but there is simply no excuse for the quality we are seeing today.

[deathwaltz]

I can't speak for anyone else but I can tell you DW / Mondo NEVER knowingly sell on defective records .

I don't Normally get involved in threads like this as usually devolve into trolling.

Plant generally check 1 in 100 records for QC.

That has ALWAYS been the same , I have plenty of old records that sound terrible and plenty that sound great same for new records.

We occasionally get a faulty batch but usually if it's coloured vinyl it is never more that 25 or 50 due to the way they are pressed.

When we did have a colossal mess up it was Godzilla that was due to one of the 3 stampers being off centre.

I pride myself on our overall packages and that includes the record not just the sleeve.

One thing I would say is that when we have a 1000 records delivered (sealed) we are not going to check every one . Sometimes you will get a bubble or a extra chunk of plastic on a record but these are usually one offs.

[DISCOSUCKS...]

@lazyben - from what you told me, it sounds like you've had hellish luck of late. Sorry to hear that.

I think my own QT control must be a little bit more forgiving than some - for instance, the recent hugely anticipated Under Pompelmo repress. Mine came with extra untrimmed plastic around the edge of the disc! But it didn't affect play, and the thought of sending off for a replacement etc etc was a weakener so...I just reached for the scissors!

[monsterworship]

This issue isn't specific to vinyl. Look at the quality of any good from the last 10 years compared to 30 years ago. Cars, electronics, etc

Spencer is right, there were always issues with vinyl pressings, but an Internet didn't exist to share & gripe about it

I remember pressing records at United records in the 90s, and if you held the black vinyl 7"s up to the light they weretranslucent grey. This was seen more as a poorer quality of vinyl. Now a days it seems like a desirable collector feature.

[Little Walter]

Having worked at record stores for years, and being an avid collector, I've opened thousands of records purchased online in the past six or seven years, and the only ones I've ever had a problem with were reissues that came out in 2010 (Dylan, Neutral Milk Hotel, Kanye). Since then, including every soundtrack I've ever purchased from Mondo, DW, WW, OWS, and all of the spin-offs and new labels (basically one of everything), every single record has come without warping, paper coming out both ends, deep gouges, or missing wax. And I don't think I'm particularly lucky; I just think that @lazyben is particularly UNlucky. Every black copy I have . . sounds beautiful.

[texasvinyl]

I don't think it's a new thing. I have plenty of vintage records that have obvious pressing defects, and I'd personally rather buy a used NM condition record than take a chance on a sealed copy which could be warped, off-center etc.

Generally speaking my #1 complaint from a QC standpoint is off-center, since anything more than a slight error will ruin the playback. I've gotten more than I'd like but still a small minority. The majority of stuff is fine. Not a new thing either, a decent number of the original Italian stuff is at least slightly off center. Not to mention even originals in sealed/new condition have scuffs that seem inherent to Italian stuff.

I can't say any of the labels on this board have been anything other than 100% accommodating in the unusual case of a defect or other issue.

Now compare that to The Vinyl Factory which just this moment responded to me re: the un-listenable Mica Levi White Cube record (severe, overpowering tape hiss). Here is their full reply:

-----

"please excuse the condition your LP arrived to you in. Sadly the test pressings for tyhis job were approved by the artist, so I'd imagine that all discs from the run will be identical I'm afriad.

I suspect aht this was a recording fault when these were recorded (as they were recorded in a busy venue and were recorded live).

You are welcome to return the disc for our engineers to check. IF tyhere is a fault with the record we will gladly replace the disc for a new copy."

-----

I don't think I'm an asshole to say this is just a piss poor response. If the recording was faulty, don't release it. If the artist approved a shitty test pressing, oh well but *don't sell it anyway*. And "you can pay $25 to ship this back to us, and if we decide it's defective we'll replace it" is a crummy solution. Particularly when this was just one album in a large $300 order. They might as well have written "thanks for the money, fuck you"

This is the opposite of how the labels here have handled their business based on my own experiences. The focus on quality and customer service is what keeps customers coming back. I probably have one of each of the releases from Mondo, DW, OWS, Waxwork etc. I've only had one quality issue and two shipping issues which the labels promptly made right.

Pressing plants with quality issues... Interesting topic.

Brooklyn Phono - uses recycled pellets for colored vinyl and has quality issues. For example they pressed the Cake box set. I went through three copies of it, all had multiple defects from double/bubbled labels, shoddy trim jobs, audible warps and swooshes to noisy vinyl and chipped edges.

United Records Nashville - does not have the best reputation, presses a lot of cheap indie stuff. Hit or miss.

A&R Dallas - can be hit or miss, I have good stuff and some less than good that came from our local plant here in Dallas

Pallas Germany - I've never had an issue with a Pallas pressing.

Quality Record Pressing in Kansas - up there with Pallas for putting out a consistent quality product.

[Pain_Bubbles]

Spencer, I've never seen a thread on pressing quality on this message board "devolve into trolling" , in fact, most don't get any response at all.
For you to suggest such a thing is somewhat baffling to be honest.

I can only speak for myself and assure you I am no troll, I am a disappointed collector of records and soundtracks ,and have been for 30 years. Over that 30 years I have seen general quality of records take a plunge and prices go through the roof.

When you say you never ship "defective" batches of records I firmly believe that you stand behind that, but maybe the definition of "Defective" has gotten pushed back so far that it is meaningless at this point.
Compared to my sizeable collection of soundtrack records from 1955 to the late 70's/early 80's I'd say 50% of todays releases could (And probably SHOULD , at the prices charged) be considered defective.
The constant barrage of surface noise is something completely uncalled for, and a room full of much quieter older records backs up my claim.
The very notion of having dozens of 1950's records that are of better quality after presumably having been played countless times "with a stylus pressure of no more than 10 grams" being of better quality than the majority of modern releases is simply an embarassment.
Some modern releases are so bad, and have been replaced so many times without any improvement that I just can not reasonably think anyone with any experience with records would call them anything but defective:
(Please bare in mind these have all been tested on multiple high quality record players , with multiple cartridges and stylus profiles)

-The Fog, blakes gold edition: Non fill , constant crackle on all sides, gave up replacing after 3 times.

-Godzilla: Constant loud crackle on both sides, tried 3 versions all pretty much the same

-Jurassic Park Dilopho Variant: Constant loud crackle and pops on all sides was unable to get replacement due to label not responding to email.

-Jurassic Park Black Variant: Distortion in low frequency, very audible (particularly in opening track IIRC) on headphones, tried another copy at store, had same issue.

-Re-animator: Non fill on last track of both sides, replaced twice to no avail

-Star Wars Episode one: Bad non-fill on first half of side D, unable to get replacement because label never responded to email.

-The Dark Knight rises: Speed issues on side 2, sounds slowed down or warbling (pretty unique problem), present on all copies I've heard.

-Let the right one in: Warped, replacement wasn't but had excessive surface noise.

-Gladiator: Constant crackle on all sides, label confirmed problem, but replacement was never sent out.

Typing this list just makes me hang my head in shame, for all the money I have spent and kept spending and in fact, am even now considering spending I must be a fool.

Now these are just a few of the worst recent examples , and soundtracks only, if I include other genres and stuff I decided to keep because the surface noise wasn't loud enought to warrant the hassle of replacing it with a copy that's probably just as bad I could go on for at least a whole page.
I hope you can appreciate this is a frustrating (And pricey) experience, and I am about to throw in the proverbial towel, I've had enough, I'm done, I'm through with spending too much money on artificial collectors items , i'm done with sending records back, dealing with unresponsive record labels and receiving bad replacement copies.
And last but not least I am completely sick and tired of having my hopes raised by yet another unbelieveable release announcement only to have it smashed when the product arrives.

The whole vinyl experience seems to have been shifted from being about music to being about cool collectors items, I feel like a Pizza lover who has to come to terms with the idea of modern Pizza's tasting like salty cardboard, in favor of have toppings on them that make them look like Spongebob or Skeletor and coming in a cool looking pizza box.

[texasvinyl]

That sucks pain. Must be really bum luck. I havent had those non-fill issues. Worth noting, non-fill has been a challenge for fifty years. Especially bad in pressings from the 1970s.

Out of the ones you listed, I only know Gladiator to have issues. That pressing is very 'snappy' and sounds exactly like when records have a lot of static that gets discharged during playback.

These kinds of threads have indeed had some issues in the past delving into flame wars

[Pain_Bubbles]

Texasvinyl, thanks for the kind response.

I don't think it is bum luck however, on other vinyl related message boards more and more people seem to echo the same sentiments, we've had several articles recently ,describing the problems at pressing plants and pressing plant managers flat out admitting quality is suffering.
More and more record enthusiasts and buying guides in all genres are shunning or even warning about new releases, even some the ones that were firmly in the "give me an unplayed new release over an abused and expensive original anytime" camp are warming up to the often superior, and at this point, cheaper older release.

Strangely enough I have never encountered non-fill (or stitching, they are difficult to tell apart, I mean the repetetive "SSSH-SSH-SSSSSSH" sounds, often in just one channel near the beginning or end of a record) on any sealed new-old-stock record, or on any older second hand record for that matter, I almost exclusively get it on recent 180 gram pressings.
I must have bought at least 100 sealed records from 1955 to 1975 over the last year alone, and a few 100 more used, probably 10 times more than new releases, and not a single case of nonfill/stitching in any of them. (didn't get a single warped one either btw) Although most are probably from before 1973, when the oil crisis caused labels to get stingy with their vinyl supply, causing non-fill because not enough vinyl was used to fill the stamper.

[linus]

I've also had a few new records turn up badly scratched lately. What do you folks do with these copies once you get a replacement? At the moment I have several duff records occupying valuable shelf space...

[Peek-a-boo]

Damn... @lazyben 10,000+ records. Niiiice!

I've been collecting about the same length of time as you & am around the 3,000 mark.

[Pain_Bubbles]

I actually don't mind some visible scuffs, as long as they don't cause pops.
I they are inaudible I get the record a decent inner sleeve ASAP (Most cases of badly scratched new records are caused by cardboard inner sleeves, although in recent years many records from a particular USA pressing plant (RTI?) also started arriving with some pretty serious scuffmarks, even though they were in good inner sleeves. (It has been suggested elsewhere that they stack the unpacked records too high, or otherwise mishandle them)
When scratches are bad enough to cause noise there is little you can do but try and return them. Some people try playing them with a simple stylus shape and heavy tracking weight a few times, this can supposedly push the "burr" from the scratch out of the way, but I have never actually hear this do any good.

Your best defense against dodgy records is buying at Amazon or a similar store with a good return policy.

[chandler75]

I have to agree, sadly. I'm not buying half as many vinyl as I was a year ago, partly because of the quality issue. I like to listen on my headphones, but the amount of surface noise and pops sometimes makes that impossible.

The problem might also have to do with the fact that OSTs often have many quiet parts compared to e.g. an AC/DC record, so any imperfections really stand out.

Pain_Bubbles: I've had the same problems with some of those you mention and regularly experience noise, pops and crackles on new releases, including releases from the labels here, unfortunately.

My latest problem (and incidentally also the latest record I bought) was with "Kill List" from Rook Film. It had a white stripe of paper or something on the vinyl. I wrote Rook Film and pointed out the problem, and the response was that it appeared in was a general problem - but that it didn't affect play! (read: don't return it). I expect a little more when paying £25.00 + £8 shipping for a 12"...

The customer service from the labels on this board has always been good, however.

[Pain_Bubbles]

Rasmus Drews, I am also a headphone listener, and completely agree that it accentuates te problems. Then again, you'd think final quality control of a record is done on multiple playback devices , including headphones.

When so many, even heavily used 60 year old records can sound fine on headphones, why can't modern ones?
Well ,I do actually have a few, Mondo's "Halloween" plays literally almost "Cd-quiet" even though it is a red/black multicolor and many of Music on Vinyl's releases are very good too, so it IS possible but that's a suprisingly low number of modern pressings that meet a standard that is easily met by many, many older records I own.


Thad Kill List looks horrible, if that's really embedded paper "won't affect play" is probably their way of saying: "It might rip the stylus of your expensive cartridge but we don't really care about that" , it's an outrageous claim, and that record should not be played if you value your stylus.

[unpopular_poet]

I haven't had too many of the same problems, but to be honest, my hearing is shot and my ears constantly ring from too many shows, so I am probably listening to shit and didn't even know it I feel for everyone who has had problems though -- I have had a few duds, but everyone has been super responsive and worked it out - most of them were novelty duds though -- color gone bad, etc.

[lazyben]

Definitely no attempt at trolling here Spencer and I don't see any in the replies thus far. We're all here because we love music and records and because of this passion it's more disappointing to receive a damaged record than something we care less about.

Obviously records by their very nature are subject to more issues than many items and I've had plenty of problems over the years but it does seem worse since the whole revival took off.

There's no way I could ever put out records as I'm OCD enough that I would be checking all of them.

[lazyben]

@disco Yeah, a really bad run of late but it's not the first time. My copy of Under Pompelmo was fine although pretty much all Italian records seem to look like crap these days with scuffs and so forth.

[lazyben]

I have a shelf full of them. I use the jackets as packing stiffeners sometimes and my daughter gets records, jackets, inners and whatnot for her art projects if she wants them.

[lazyben]

@Rasmus My first copy of Kill List was even worse than that with all that crap and deep gouges. They sent me another one and while it's better than the first one it's still very scuffed and scratched and the background noise is way louder than the quiet bits of the music. I gave up at that point, it does sound like the whole pressing is possibly damaged.

[bpwlogan]

I've been buying records for 30 years and haven't had any real problems with the labels that I've bought from that are on this form. I guess I'm lucky too. The only one that I did have a problem with was resolved quickly with a replacement vinyl. I'm sure everyone knows colored vinyl in many cases has more surface noise than black. I think transparent colored vinyl is the closest thing to sounding like a well pressed black vinyl. Solid color vinyl can be more hit or miss, but most of these labels do a good job with them. The splatter thing is something that is fairly new. I think the first time I saw a splatter vinyl was in 2005 or so. When I go to purchase a vinyl from Death Waltz, Mondo, or whomever I buy the black vinyl if it's available. One final thought I have many black pressing from DW & Mondo they sound excellent to me, and they hold up to any vinyl I've bought in the past 30 years.

[FulciLives]

Like the top post states, "the prices never been higher and the quality never been lower". I don't have time to write down a list of my unplayable newer lp' s. But I'll say AMS, Death Waltz come to mind immediately. It's been written in this forum somewhere that AMS has a faulty press being used.... how pathetic is that!!!

There should be a thread where people list all new releases they've purchased that have poor audio quality, in hopes other people don't make the same mistake.

[flapdoodle]

I'm becoming more selective now as I'm fed up with these LPs that sound like they're a bowl of rice crispies. In the last few weeks I've had barely listenable albums: CHUD, Fulci 2 Frizzi (With a scratch!), and From a Whisper to a Scream, which also had a huge scratch on it.

[Pain_Bubbles]

In light of my previous posts on this subject, I feel obliged to talk about my recent experiences with Mondo.

After receiving a few Mondo releases as a gift , and being absolutely stunned by the quality it felt safe to buy a few more. So after Aliens, Jurassic world, Black Swan and Army of Darkness I was even able to get "The Last of Us"from discogs (new and sealed but with a slight dent on one corner of the outer box, for a very nice price.)

All of these records, are absolutely flawless, and among the best new records i have bought EVER: They are almost CD-quiet, perfectly flat and centered. They feel like those heavy black slabs from the 60's, solid, shiny, with no excess vinyl on any edges. Some of them even 45rpm! (As a fan of original covers I even loved the Army of darkness cover)
I don't know if my earlier (negative) experiences with the label were down to bad luck, or maybe Mondo has made some changes, different pressing plant perhaps?

If they continue to consistently deliver quality like this, I have no problem paying a bit more for them then for a regular "back to black" LP. The fact that most of these are, or will be available trough regular record stores also makes it a lot easier to return/exchange them if I should ever receive a 'dud'.

I know Mondo is probably not waiting for my approval, but felt it would be fair to mention te postive after having been pretty vocal about the negative.

[ninjur]

Some another big problem is, according to me:
-Fishy source. High priced reissues should really use the original mastertapes as source for the transfer.
-Questionable mastering engineer and/or cutting engineer. You can have the best source and perfect pressing, but if the mastering or the cutting is bad it is going to stink. Why not use some of the old great mastering engineer that still are working? Kevin Grey, Ray Staaf, Bernie grundman, Sterlingh sound, etc.
-Too me it look like it is more important with "cool colors" than deliever a great sounding vinyl. I don't mind that there is color releases but I would prefer that there is always a black release and that the company use the best pressingplant.

So I would prefer a slower release rate, and much more affort to do the most for the best release ever for each project.