Talk about films scores here.

Moderators: lazyben, static14, texasvinyl

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By ScoJo
#138083
EvanCampbell wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:34 am Thank again Scott for these...hmm now I might want a WW version. Did WW ever do a black version. I did not see it.
Sadly not mate. You have a choice of Glow, Marble, Swirl and Splatter - the Four Evil Dwarves of record pressing. But the 2013 'Green Marbled' that I have does sound pretty good, as per my comparison notes. I can vouch for that version at least.

@Bez, there is some element of the pressing process involved in creating a Glow vinyl which has been known to leave a powdery residue in the grooves - I'm not 100% clear on whether this can be combatted with a deep clean, but I believe that's the main reason they get a bad rep.
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By CrossedPete
#138210
334578rpm wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:01 pm Have WW ever pressed an album on black vinyl? I can't think of a single one.
I can think of two(sorta) I have a copy of TMNT the foot soldier variant that has one disc Black and I believe one of the discs for her smell is black as well.

For the longest time I thought my copy of Friday the 13th was black as well, till one day by fluke I held it up to the light and sure enough it was just really murky.
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By static14
#138211
ScoJo wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:25 am
EvanCampbell wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:34 am Thank again Scott for these...hmm now I might want a WW version. Did WW ever do a black version. I did not see it.
Sadly not mate. You have a choice of Glow, Marble, Swirl and Splatter - the Four Evil Dwarves of record pressing. But the 2013 'Green Marbled' that I have does sound pretty good, as per my comparison notes. I can vouch for that version at least.

@Bez, there is some element of the pressing process involved in creating a Glow vinyl which has been known to leave a powdery residue in the grooves - I'm not 100% clear on whether this can be combatted with a deep clean, but I believe that's the main reason they get a bad rep.
The powder is what they add to make it GITD. So sadly you can’t wash it away. It’s baked in there.
By EvanCampbell
#138216
I think Phase IV was black and I remember was in stock for a long time unlike the spashly ones that sold out fast. I think they got the message black is boring and won't sell when probably just the unknown title to most new listeners. Honestly I have not purchased anything from WW since Chud
By 334578rpm
#138224
EvanCampbell wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:20 pm I think Phase IV was black and I remember was in stock for a long time unlike the spashly ones that sold out fast. I think they got the message black is boring and won't sell when probably just the unknown title to most new listeners.
This is why we can't have nice things (like black vinyl).
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By Bezulsqy
#138337
We can complain about a lack of black vinyl but I believe most of us really love going for the more colourful releases :-)
I love all these eg
And I think that this vinyl resurgence wouldn't be as big if there was only black wax. And that would mean we wouldn't have seen a lot of these obscure releases we love so much. Of course there are exceptions...
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By inksb
#138341
Bezulsqy wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:57 pm We can complain about a lack of black vinyl but I believe most of us really love going for the more colourful releases :-)
I love all these eg
And I think that this vinyl resurgence wouldn't be as big if there was only black wax. And that would mean we wouldn't have seen a lot of these obscure releases we love so much. Of course there are exceptions...
I definitely agree that the color variants are one of the things that have driven the resurgence and I will admit I do like some of the color ideas they come up with, Waxmage pressings (which I own zero) look incredible. But I've been burned so many times by sub par color pressings that if the option of color and black presents itself to me I buy the black version in an instant. Especially if it's coming Mongo
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By ScoJo
#138548
COMPARISON CORNER #13:
by Skødjö
-------------

DAWN OF THE DEAD/ZOMBI
Music Composed by Goblin

A comparison between four vinyl releases of the score - VARESE SARABANDE, DAGORED, AMS and WAXWORK RECORDS, with an A/B of the two opening tracks on Side A and some scattered notes on the different artwork/presentation/track listings.

1. Varese Sarabande (1979, VC 81106)
33rpm

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This is the first pressing by Varese - there are a couple of different vinyl pressings by the label, with different logo colour on back sleeve (mine is the red print) and label colouring. Some comments on Discogs suggest that the different pressings also have slightly different mix, but I have no way to confirm or comment on this. Might be baloney.

First thing to note is that the performances here are almost certainly those heard in the movie - I compared the opening two tracks to their appearance in the film and they sound the same. This release has incredible mastering! My god, I gave this the business on headphones, cranking the dial waaay past my usual 9 o'clock position all the way to about 11 o'clock, to really feel the power of those two opening cues. They sound immense, with no break up or unpleasantness at the higher volume, the killer bass line of the title track (actually Track 2 on the VS release, but Track 1 on all the other releases...) is thunderous, and the shrill, piercing keys stabs really contrast beautifully in the mix.

My copy arrived today, and is now 42 years old - it's in excellent shape with just a few scuffs, and the pressing overall sounds quite astonishing - just as we've come to expect from Varese releases from this era. As well as all the feels that this version gives me instantly, poring over the Scott Holton sleeve notes (just as I did in my teens) and the grimy black and white stills, it's hard to believe that any of the other releases of this score on wax will come close in terms of mastering and pressing.


2. Dagored (2000, Red 117-1)
33rpm

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This was my first Italian pressing of the score, billed here both as DoTD and Zombi variously on the sleeve and labels, and officially licensed from Cinevox. This pressing has the titles in Italian, and has three points of difference with the VS tracklisting: the opening two tracks on Side A, 'L'Alba Dei Morti Viventi/Dawn of the Dead' and 'Zombi/Zombie' are switched around, the tracks 'Torte in Faccia/Pie in the Face' and 'Al Margini Della Follia/Edge of Madness' are listed as one track on the Varese and as individual tracks on the Dagored (although in reality, they play with a gap between on the VS so they are effectively separate tracks there too), and the Dagored adds a final short additional track 'Zombi (sexy)' at the end of the album which is a little loungey/sax piece.

Otherwise the tracks presented on this version sound similar to the VS release, albeit with noticeably less punchy mastering and slightly lower volume level. It's a little bit noisy but this could be my copy, overall though this is an excellent pressing of the score.

The album comes in a glossy gatefold sleeve with the trademark 'textless' Dagored front style - with a nice choice of still image. There is a pretty cool 'blood hit in motion' image on the reverse, and the centre gatefold has a neat 'grasping zombies at the glass' spread, and a little ad which informs us that there is also a Cinevox '20th Anniversary Special Edition' expanded CD - more on this when we get to the Waxworks release.


3. AMS (2014, AMSLP31)
33rpm

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Love the sleeve on this AMS reissue of the Cinevox original pressing, with the Italian film poster variation on the front and a groovy live shot of The Goblins in action on the reverse. This repress has the same tracklist as the original 1978 Cinevox pressing, which is the same as the Dagored with the omission of the bonus 'Zombi (sexy)' track that was tacked onto that release.

Sound wise, this is the most different sounding of the four versions I have, from a mastering point of view - it's really quiet! Putting it directly up against the Varese, it's almost half as loud as the ferocious mastering on that edition, which is pretty weird. It actually sounds just fine once it is cranked a bit, but you best know that with increased output comes increased surface noise. So strange that they would tone it down so radically for this pressing. In any event, musically it sounds very similar to the Dagored mix but perhaps they went back to tape masters for this one, and erred on the cautious side with the mastering for vinyl? Hard to say. I enjoy having this edition in my collection mainly for the Italian sleeve, but so far it's the least impressive pressing as a listen - though by no means bad.


4. Waxwork Records (2018, WW 051)
Blue/Green Swirl -Zombie Flesh Variant, 33rpm

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The first expanded vinyl release of this score by Waxwork is a presentation of the Cinevox '20th Anniversary Special Edition' CD from 1998. So the first two-and-a-half sides present the original Italian set, including the switched track one and two order that's different from the Varese release, and then including the bonus and alternate takes over the rest of the four sides. Truthfully, there's no reason not to believe that when they say 'Re-Mastered for Vinyl' they mean from the CD master source, rather than from original analog tapes - otherwise, they would have mentioned it right?

Sound wise, this release stacks up against the Dagored release in terms of overall sound and volume level. But when compared to the Varese, it is still a little bit quieter and less aggressive for the most part. The one area where it has been adjusted is the kick drum and bass on the opening track 'L'Alba Dei Morti Viventi' - it has been given a pretty heavy low boost which makes the track mix in general sound a bit more modern, with less of the boxy low kick of the original mix as presented on the previous releases. Not sure how I feel about it if I'm honest - don't hate it, but it's also maybe a little crude when you put the track up directly against the Varese, which sounds more natural and balanced, and more similar to the film version.

As with many WW releases (and to be fair, other contemporary horror reissue labels etc), the artwork treatment here might work for you, or it might just leave you flat. It goes heavy on the minimalist cartoony illustration style favoured quite a bit these days, and while personally I'm okay with the front art, I find the rear sleeve and inner gatefold illustrations to be fast and cheap looking - like art from a fairly meh modern comic book tie in.

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Wrapping up then - all told, the Varese pressing buries all the others in a shallow grave, with little respect or even saying a few kind words over the grave - it's truly fantastic, brash, in your face and hot, without going too far. This music deserves to be treated in the manner that it's offered, with Goblin (under Argento's urging) turning their Italian amps all the way up for maximum dynamism and power. My only small query with the Varese set is the decision to switch the order of the first two tracks - although Zombie is itself a terrific track, Dawn of the Dead (as presented on the Italian and WW editions) stands as one of the greatest opening tracks in all of horror soundtracks.

I don't know about the original Cinevox pressing, but I would quite like to hear it, to see if it's as polite as the AMS repress! The Waxwork presentation sounds just fine, with the caveat about that bass boost, and the fact that it is quite likely re-mastered from a digital master.

For me, I'd be happy to have the Varese original, along with a rip of the Cinevox 20th Anniversary CD for those times when I want to break out the alternate takes etc, but I also don't hate having that set on the Waxworks 2xLP release on my shelf. I just can't say it's the copy I'm going to be reaching for when I want all my DotD feels going forward.
Last edited by ScoJo on Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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By havershaw
#138550
thanks for this, ScoJo!!

I have the same VS pressing as you do (from my childhood - distinct memories of walking into Eide’s in Pittsburgh and buying it brand new!) and even though it’s a little beat, it still sounds incredible.
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By CrossedPete
#138557
As always an excellent comparison @scojo. I feel like I have to give this a spin today. It’s just so good. I was nervous for a moment that I might need to grab a fourth copy but I’m probably good with my three :). For me it’s my favourite Goblin score.
#138565
Thanks, ScoJo - excellent intel, as always.

I am, like you, more the OG kind of guy, have the Varese on my wishlist. I did own an OG Cinevox, but that one did not really do it to me. If I remember correctly it is rather quiet but what I know for sure Is that I was disappointed with the dynamics and separation of instruments - it sounded rather flat and a bit murky. So that one actually sounded like sourced from a CD (of course that format didn’t exist back then). That is very unusual for Cinevox OGs of that era, they are usually almost as much a ‚safe bet‘ as a Varese pressing - at least their mastering. Maybe this one wasn‘t pressed on the best quality vinyl. I now have the Seven Seas Japan pressing which I like a lot. It sounds clean and dynamic and well rounded if that makes sense.
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By ScoJo
#138567
ChrisMcQueen007 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:29 pm Thanks, ScoJo - excellent intel, as always.

I am, like you, more the OG kind of guy, have the Varese on my wishlist. I did own an OG Cinevox, but that one did not really do it to me. If I remember correctly it is rather quiet but what I know for sure Is that I was disappointed with the dynamics and separation of instruments - it sounded rather flat and a bit murky. So that one actually sounded like sourced from a CD (of course that format didn’t exist back then). That is very unusual for Cinevox OGs of that era, they are usually almost as much a ‚safe bet‘ as a Varese pressing - at least their mastering. Maybe this one wasn‘t pressed on the best quality vinyl. I now have the Seven Seas Japan pressing which I like a lot. It sounds clean and dynamic and well rounded if that makes sense.
I meant to make mention of the Japanese pressing and forgot- not one that I've heard, but love the sleeve of course. Quite a few scheckel to get a decent copy these days. Good to hear it's a quality pressing too - any dialogue on it Chris?
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By ScoJo
#138569
ChrisMcQueen007 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:55 pm Nope, thankfully no dialogue!
Just had a squint and it's the same tracklisting/track order as the Italian pressings. I'd def be interested in scoring a copy one day, and giving a listen.

So interesting that Varese is the only release with the switched track order. They rarely ever put a foot wrong, but must say it's a mistake not to open with the title track imho. It's a hell of an opener!
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By Hatter313
#140306
Ok, i just listened to the first side of the AMS reissue and am now onto the same for the OG cinevox.

to my ears, the OG is much brighter and a bit louder. I don't think it is as "polite" as the AS, which is a perfect way to put it. Now i don't have a VS, but by the above posts that one seems to be even better, but for now this is the one i'll be reaching for.

I don't want to cast aspersions, and they did me very well for many years, but i suspect digital masters on those AMS reissues. I moved most of mine along when i replaced a lot of my goblin with the dueling DW/WW releases, but now it appears in my more mature days its going to have to be originals from now on. at least for this, Profondo Rosso, and the big S. (heaven help the wallet - the DW sounds good for now though) I'll live with the dueling Tenebre and the WW phenomena
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By ScoJo
#141533
This one has been a long time coming..... strap in!

COMPARISON CORNER #14:
by Skødjö

-------------

HALLOWEEN III: SEASON OF THE WITCH
Music Composed and Performed by John Carpenter
in association with Alan Howarth


My main reason for tackling this comparison was to finally understand what DWRC actually added to their expanded vinyl 2nd and 3rd pressings (in 2014 and 2018) , and work out whether we still don't have the complete score on vinyl (Spoiler: we don't!)


1. MCA RECORDS (1982, MCA 6115)

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The first release of the score is an edited selection of cues from the film, formatted nicely to fit as an LP length programme. It's a terrific listen basically, and covers all of the main cues which we recall so fondly from the movie. My very well looked after original copy, now almost 40 years old, sounds incredible - the electronic music is represented really well, with a full range of dynamics befitting this iconic score - from Carpenter's trademark low, dread-inducing drones to the bright, piercing sequenced sounds which propel the music forwards. It really does sound phenomenal, and it's an album which I have no intention of ever parting with - a cornerstone 1980's science fiction-horror/Carpenter soundtrack.

Although I no longer own a copy, the first Death Waltz reissue in 2012 was the same presentation of music as the MCA album, I can't compare it unfortunately but I don't recall it having any particular issues so it's probably a decent like-for-like reissue if that's what you really want, and you're not able to afford the ever-increasing cost of the original release.


2. ALAN HOWARTH INCORPORATED (2007, AHICD 001)

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For this 25th Anniversary compact disc release, Howarth returned to the master tapes and produced a set which represents all of the music from the film. I only have a rip of this but it sounds good, and the additional 13 cues are very welcome, there's some killer stuff. It would have been cool if the extras were integrated into the chronology of the original set, but it's great to have them all the same. It's to be assumed (and from interviews that I've read with Howarth) that the first DW reissue in 2012 was taken from this source. It should be added that in an interview AH mentions that he used some more modern mastering techniques to complete this set (to 'flatten' it, I believe is the phrase he uses?), which were not available to him at the time. Who knows, he's probably referring to compression/limiting??
To jump ahead, there are an additional 7x bonus cues on this CD which have not yet been added to any vinyl reissue.


3. DEATH WALTZ (2014, DW008DL)

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The 2nd DWRC pressing of the score expands it (though still across a single 33rpm disc) to include "6 Previously Unheard Cues" - which turns out to be wholly incorrect (see above CD release!). This version also expands Jay Shaw's art full face without a border. It was taken from a new master that was pulled directly from the original analog tape source, with Howarth working with DW to expand their original reissue, and rework the programme to best fit onto a single LP expanded edition.

First of all, even after multiple cleans, my orange vinyl copy is noisy as hell. It starts of super crackly and though it does calm down, it seems this is one pressing where you just have to make peace with the noise. Sound wise, it compares pretty well to the MCA release on the tracks which are present on both editions - Chariots of Pumpkins, for instance, sounds quite punchy although perhaps a touch less so than the MCA. Probably because of the additional music squeezed onto this disc.

On to the tracklist, which is a bit of a mire - as is often the case with DW and WW reissues, some tracks have been retitled and the bonus cues are also completely different titles to their counterparts on the Howarth 25th Anniversary set. In exhaustively breaking it down track by track and comparing the DW expanded release with the Howarth CD, I can say that this version includes all of the tracks from the original MCA album except 'South Corridor' - which is actually the track 'Goodbye Ellie' and 'South Corridor' is omitted. 'Halloween Montage' is replaced by three Silver Shamrock cues: 'Silver Shamrock - 2 More Days', 'Silver Shamrock - 1 More Day' and 'Silver Shamrock - Happy Happy'.) It also renames the original LP cue 'Starker and Marge' and splits it into two tracks, named 'Challis & Starker' and 'Marge Revealed'.

The bonus tracks effectively amount to five of the bonuscues from the Howarth CD, three of which are split into two, and all are renamed so that it is difficult to figure out what's what - unless you are me, and you painstakingly compare them all :)
From the CD, 'Mask Test Tone' becomes 'Ellie Enters' and 'Microphone'; 'I Do Love a Good Joke' becomes 'Buddy's Death' and 'Cochran Speaks'. 'Where Is She?' becomes 'Santa Mira Nightfall', 'Hey Boom' becomes 'Gas Station' and 'Robot Kills Grimbridge' and 'Halloween III Close/Open' becomes 'Titles and Chariots (Alt Mix)'.
Lastly, the 3rd pressing by DWRC in 2018 (in the silly packaging) is the same set as the 2nd pressing, and from the same master I believe - though again I don't have a copy to directly compare/comment.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

So in conclusion - this one is harder to call tbh. As I say, the MCA original sounds awesome and is definitely an LP you need (even if just for the original key art ferr chrissakes, I mean come on...) While it's cool that DWRC released a new version of the score from tape and included bonus cues, at least the version I have on orange wax is really crackly and if I'm honest, the shuffling around of the tracks feels a bit all over the place. Now that I've compared it directly with the CD, I think I'll be reaching for the digital rip when I feel like listening to the full score.

What I think I'm going to do, however, is re-sequence the expanded CD so that all the cues are chronological... and then hope that some kind soul puts the whole thing out as a double LP set one day, on beautiful black wax :)
Last edited by ScoJo on Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
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By inksb
#141534
Thanks again for doing the task and exhaustive detective work to figure out what the hell is what with the renaming of tracks and splitting them up, so strange to do that. I'll have to pull out my 2014 DW copy this evening to see if I have any surface noise (can't say I remember any) but I have the black pressing. I don't think I've ever listened to the 2018 reissue, it's one of the only records I've ever bought strictly due to it's packaging. It's a "decorative" copy while my 2014 version is the main spinner. I would love to get my hands on an OG pressing but the prices seem to be getting out of hand as of late
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By tim28212
#141535
Awesome review Scojo. I have 3 vinyl pressings (MCA, original DW, and expanded 2nd DW pressing) I also have the 25th Ann. CD and I always pull the original MCA. I think it's a good compromise of everything that's great about the score. And like you pointed out, that awesome cover art! The CD is good but clocking in at around 70 minutes it tends to runs a bit long for me.
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By ScoJo
#141536
I do agree on balance Tim - there are cues on the CD set which are essentially variations of other themes (like 'Stonehenge' which is very similar to 'The Rock') and so logically I'm with you.

But then there's the part of me which wants ALL OF THE THINGS! ;)
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