Talk about films scores here.

Moderators: lazyben, static14, texasvinyl

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By havershaw
#115557
In another 10 days or so, I’ll have a week off work and I can contribute a ton of these comparisons. I have a big pile of records I haven’t finished sifting through and I’ve been meaning to do some comparisons.

A comparison that nearly killed me last week was the 40th Anniversary Cinevox Suspiria with the recent Death Waltz Suspiria (the one they sold at Beyond Fest).
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By Bezulsqy
#115563
havershaw wrote:In another 10 days or so, I’ll have a week off work and I can contribute a ton of these comparisons. I have a big pile of records I haven’t finished sifting through and I’ve been meaning to do some comparisons.

A comparison that nearly killed me last week was the 40th Anniversary Cinevox Suspiria with the recent Death Waltz Suspiria (the one they sold at Beyond Fest).
Love to hear your thoughts and results! I also have both of those and have played both of them, but not side by side. They should be from the same master.
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By havershaw
#115565
Off the top of my head:

DW’s release had noticeably more top and bottom. Cinevox seemed to be flatter, but that was kind of good for the midrange.
I liked the extra bass in the DW, but I found the decide how I felt about the extra top. Hi hats etc sounded nicer (not overdone) and guitar seemed to come out a little on the DW.

I initially did the A/B so I could decide if I could sell the DW, but there were things I really liked about both, so I kept them all. I can do an in-depth examination after next week.
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By ScoJo
#115574
havershaw wrote:Off the top of my head:

DW’s release had noticeably more top and bottom. Cinevox seemed to be flatter, but that was kind of good for the midrange.
I liked the extra bass in the DW, but I found the decide how I felt about the extra top. Hi hats etc sounded nicer (not overdone) and guitar seemed to come out a little on the DW.

I initially did the A/B so I could decide if I could sell the DW, but there were things I really liked about both, so I kept them all. I can do an in-depth examination after next week.
Hey Havershaw, welcome to the party pal! :D

Can I put in a request, if you're considering throwing down in Comparison Corner sometime (which would be awesome...)?

Would you consider comparing (at least one track/the title theme?) with the original film version? If that sounds like ballache, don't mind me, but I'm finding it fascinating to be using that as a base line comparison, before getting into the nitty gritty of different pressings ;)
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By havershaw
#115577
thanks, ScoJo!

I’ll have to figure out the best way to do that. I don’t have any way to play a Blu Ray or a dvd in my office where my turntable and all of my records are.

I might not be able to do that in my first couple of contributions but I’ll try to figure something out before too long.
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By havershaw
#115579
Also, I too tend to hate re-recordings of scores.

Oh, except John Williams’ The Fury, where I actually think I like the album version better. That is the first version I ever heard, so I could be biased, but it’s also the London Symphony Orchestra and I just think they’re a little more magical than other orchestras, so maybe not.

I also don’t tend to be thrilled with remixes from the actual multi-track, but I guess sometimes that’s the only choice. Creepshow is one that, for me, they missed the mark on a lot of the remix, but it sure is nice to have all of that extra music.
(I’m also still on the fence about the Day of the Dead remix but again, nice to have it so complete, so it’s hard for me to be tooooo mad.)
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By havershaw
#116881
So these are the three copies of POD that I own.
My record shelves are getting crowded, so I thought I’d thin the herd a little, which means comparison time!
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By ScoJo
#116884
havershaw wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:30 pm So these are the three copies of POD that I own.
My record shelves are getting crowded, so I thought I’d thin the herd a little, which means comparison time!
Yesyes YES! Can't wait to hear your findings.
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By havershaw
#116885
First is my childhood copy, bought new upon release. It’s been cleaned but is still VG+. Wish I had a nicer one.

Second is the frosted clear 2014 DW repress.

Third is the 2019 “green galaxy swirl” Mondo/DW release.

The clear winner to me is the OG VS.
second place is 2014.
last place is 2019.

I decided to start by A/B’ing the two reissues, and then I figured I’d put up the best reissue against the VS.
When I first got the 2019 release, I thought it sounded terrific, but everyone in my house was asleep and I was playing it pretty quiet.
But listening today, I realized the audio is really really quiet, which means the noise of the pressing itself is kind of loud in comparison.
The 2014 is a much louder pressing, while somehow still sounding more dynamic. It also unquestionably has deeper and more powerful bass than the 2019. When I turned up the 2019 to get it as loud as the 2014, boy did the record’s noise become even more obvious.
In general, the 2019 sounds flatter (though I did sometimes question whether or not the 2014’s low end was a touch over cooked).
I’d definitely take the 2014 over the 2019 any day.
I should add, I saw lots of complaints on Discogs about noisy 2014 pressings and mine seems perfect and dead silent, although I’ve also had mine ultra-sonically cleaned, so maybe that helped?
Anyway: the OG VS is almost exactly as loud as the 2014, and has terrific bass like the 2014 also, but also seems to have an air, space, and clarity that the 2014 doesn’t have. It’s also a tiny tiny bit more dynamic somehow.
The VS was the clear winner, but I thought the 2014 was also decent. I’m hanging onto that one for now.
The 2019 is getting sold. Hahaha. Too bad, too, because I really loved how it looked, but oh well.
It’s possible the white or green pressings don’t have the noise issues, and it did sound good when really cranked, so if 2019 is your only option, I mean, it’s not horrible.

But now I feel like I have to find a NM VS, so I guess I have to find some more records to sell. Guess I’ll go through my They Live copies next?
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By tim28212
#116886
I don't have the 2019 release but I have the others and I always pull out my VS original over the DW. In fact, I almost always prefer a VS original over any of the reissues. They knew what they were doing back in the day.
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By havershaw
#116889
VS originals *always* kill everything else, for me. I’m not sure of a reissue I prefer.
Their mastering was always super clear, punchy, and big-sounding. And dead quiet pressings, too.

I’d sell my 2014 if I had a flawless VS.
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By havershaw
#116891
Also, A/B-ing the only 2 copies of They Live I have: 2019 Formeldahyde Face and a 2014 frosted clear.

This one is super hard for me to decide between.
2014 seems like maybe richer but is slightly less punchy?
2019 has more clarity and top for sure but I kind of like the smooth top on the 2014.
2014 has a few pops and clicks here and there but is otherwise dead quiet.
2019 has no pops or clicks but seems to have more surface noise.
They seem like the same volume overall but I think actually 2014 might be more dynamic cause loud stuff just leaps out of the speakers more.

verdict: must find original Enigma, I guess

I know ScoJo A/B’d the Enigma and the 2019, but I’m adding this to compare 2014 and 2019.
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By ScoJo
#117066
COMPARISON CORNER #4:
by Skødjö

-------------

PHANTASM
Music by Fred Myrow and Malcolm Seagrave

As well as comparing the title track on each release against the film version (using Bad Robot restoration bluray), I'll be jumping around spot-comparing other tracks and highlighting variations in track listings etc.

1. Varese Sarabande (1979, VC 81105)

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So, the crucial question - is this (first) soundtrack release the music as featured within the film, a different mix, or even a re-recording?
No, this is definitely the same version of the theme actually heard in the film (interestingly, 'Intro and Main Title' kicking off the LP doesn't actually appear in substantial form in the movie until the 30min mark, during the scene where Jody escapes from his locked bedroom).
Phew. So no horrible surprises there. And yep, this first release of the score sounds awesome. With such multi-layered instrumentation on the title track and throughout the score (including Yamaha YC30 synth, clavinet, electric piano, bells and weird percussion, drums, bowed cymbals, organ, mellotron) there is great separation and depth to the mix, with beautifully clear highs and some pleasing depth to the low synth and bass notes. It sounds generally dynamic, rich and powerful, and my own copy is super clean and quiet.
Let's face it - this is one of the greatest film soundtracks ever composed, and it shines with this Varese pressing.

2. GEM (1979, GEMLP102)

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This is the UK release of the score, and to all intents and purposes appears very likely to be from the same master source as the Varese. Volume level and general dynamics are equal to the US release, though the vinyl is super flexible so possibly only 120g vs. the standard VS 140/150g?
The only other difference is the sleeve design and the inclusion of Captain Zorro's 'Phantasm' disco version which kicks off side A, which is truly a banger. (This track can also be found on the GEM 12" single release, backed with the track 'Sure Can Boogie' and on 'blood stained yellow vinyl'!)
The UK release is very favourably comparable to the US, and a bit easier/cheaper to find in Ex condition, plus you get everything AND that extra track, so unless you're a Varese completist it's a great option.

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3. CAM / Seven Seas (1979, FML 127)
Visurama Sound

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Here's where things get kinda interesting. This Japanese pressing is from the same time as the Varese, and is presented as being in 'Visurama Sound', having alternate mixes and unique material not found on the US/UK releases.
Right out of the gate, there is approx 30-40 secs of atmospheric drone and swishing Silver Ball sound FX, blending into 'Intro and Main Title' track (renamed 'Title Theme' yet sounding pretty close to the version on the other releases from '79). It's not clear whether this additional intro music is courtesy of Myrow/Seagrave, though I feel there's every chance it was added by someone else and is part of the 'Visurama' presentation. It's definitely not something heard in the film.

So here's the tracklisting for this edition, and what I've done is try to identify which Japanese LP cues tally with the Varese LP, which are different in some way or another, and which are unique to the Japanese pressing (marked ***) - all tricky, as many of the tracks have different titles here!

A1 Title Theme (Different 'drone' intro, mixing into VS = 'A1 Intro and Main Title')
A2 House Of The Fortuneteller *** (Lovely track, definitely the work of Myrow/Seagrave and yet not featured on the Varese/Gem releases. But hold on - all will be clear when we get to the Mondo reissue...)
A3 A Dwarf In The Hearse (VS = 2nd half of the track 'B4 Funeral Organ/Dwarf in Hearse')
A4 Morningside *** (Really weird, mellow version of the main theme...again sounds like it's Myrow/Seagrave's work, especially when it morphs into the 'straighter' version of the theme. Once more, all will be revealed when we get to the Mondo release...)
A5 Overturned Ice Cream Truck (VS = 'B8 Overturned Ice Cream Truck')
A6 The Tall Man (VS = 'A3 Mineshaft Chase')
A7 Mike Under The Car (VS = 'B5 Under the Car')
A8 Jody's Theme (VS = 2nd half of the track 'B1 Jody at Morningside/Just a Dream?')

B1 The Roar *** (Drone cue, similar to opening bit on Side A, with phasing effect - pretty sure this is not by Myrow/Seagrave and as it is, sort of substitutes for the missing track on VS = 'A7 Spacegate to Infinity')
B2 Phantasm Disco (VS = 2nd half of the track 'A4 Phantasmagoria/Silver Sphere Disco' but has some added electronic SFX and sounds like perhaps a slightly different mix with less reverb?)
B3 Old Photograph *** (Bonkers track, again has the palette of the original score but this music definitely isn't in the film!)
B4 Dwarves In The Dark *** (Another new one, great clanging piano and synths/organ...this is awesome, though actually sounds more like Frizzi/Fulci than the original composers!)
B5 The Silver Death *** (Absolutely bananas extended tabla/drum freakout, with signature Phantasm sounds and what might be fretless bass, but has lots of electronic textures not heard anywhere else on the score!
The basic track is actually very similar to the cue 'Mike Under the Car' but with loads of really bizarre echo and reverb fx - so likely this is an extended version of that cue but with our erstwhile Japanese shadow composer doodling over the top! Fascinating stuff.)

B6 The Cemetery Chase (VS = 1st half of the track 'A4 Phantasmagoria/Silver Sphere Disco')
B7 The Hearse Chase (VS = B7 'Hearse Chase')
B8 Title Theme (Reprise) (VS = B3 'The Tall Man on Main Street')

4. Mondo (2015, MOND 057)
Red and Black Swirl

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This reissue compares very favourably to the original 1979 releases, certainly has all the clarity and punch of the OG pressings. Volume level is generally very similar, and there's perhaps a tiny touch less low end in the deep synth sounds, but I wouldn't stake my ears on that. So the real draw of this edition (which as far as I can see was not shouted about or publicised at all by Mondo!?) is the inclusion of the composite outtakes track 'Or is It?', which closes out Side B.
This is 3 and a half minutes of unused score and is pretty damn great - and reveals that a couple of the 'mystery' bonus track inclusions on the Japanese Visurama pressing are actually pieces of these unused cues (A2 and A4), although the mixes of them on the Japanese/Mondo releases are wildly different!

----------------

So there you have it. In my humble opinion, if you are as much an on-your-knees-facing-Mecca devotee of this score as I am, you actually need ALL FOUR of the releases of this score in your life. The Varese just because it's the OG and my 40 year old copy still sounds bloody marvellous, the GEM because it has the inclusion of the Captain Zorro track (although you could sub this LP for the GEM 12" instead, which is a Halloween staple round these parts...), the Japanese release because it is flipping nuts and has about 50% of the Varese soundtrack edition and a lot of stuff that's great and exclusive to this pressing - even if at least some of it is the work of our mystery Japanese shadow composer! And finally the Mondo, because it's actually a really solid reissue of the OG album (with pretty great alternate artwork) and has the addition of that suite of unused cues- with different mixes to their counterparts on the Japanese release.

Phew. I'm well and truly spent guys, but listening to Phantasm in all it's myriad guises for the last few hours has been very very far from a chore and tbh I'd happily do it again sometime soon just for fun!

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Last edited by ScoJo on Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:02 am, edited 26 times in total.
User avatar
By monsterworship
#117067
damn we just got served...

seriously such amazing information scott. i have all of these versions minus the UK and I've really never paid this much attention to them before. To me the Japanese artwork is next level and will continue to be my favorite on that aspect alone but now I need to take a look at the Japanese 7" and see how it compares to the actual Visurama release.
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By ScoJo
#117069
Thanks Chad - Halloween is absolutely in my sights, but I might well need a holiday before I go there :-/

Looking forward to some intel on that Visurama 7"!!
User avatar
By ScoJo
#117070
havershaw wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:43 pm First is my childhood copy, bought new upon release. It’s been cleaned but is still VG+. Wish I had a nicer one.

Second is the frosted clear 2014 DW repress.

Third is the 2019 “green galaxy swirl” Mondo/DW release.

The clear winner to me is the OG VS.
second place is 2014.
last place is 2019.

I decided to start by A/B’ing the two reissues, and then I figured I’d put up the best reissue against the VS.
When I first got the 2019 release, I thought it sounded terrific, but everyone in my house was asleep and I was playing it pretty quiet.
But listening today, I realized the audio is really really quiet, which means the noise of the pressing itself is kind of loud in comparison.
The 2014 is a much louder pressing, while somehow still sounding more dynamic. It also unquestionably has deeper and more powerful bass than the 2019. When I turned up the 2019 to get it as loud as the 2014, boy did the record’s noise become even more obvious.
In general, the 2019 sounds flatter (though I did sometimes question whether or not the 2014’s low end was a touch over cooked).
I’d definitely take the 2014 over the 2019 any day.
I should add, I saw lots of complaints on Discogs about noisy 2014 pressings and mine seems perfect and dead silent, although I’ve also had mine ultra-sonically cleaned, so maybe that helped?
Anyway: the OG VS is almost exactly as loud as the 2014, and has terrific bass like the 2014 also, but also seems to have an air, space, and clarity that the 2014 doesn’t have. It’s also a tiny tiny bit more dynamic somehow.
The VS was the clear winner, but I thought the 2014 was also decent. I’m hanging onto that one for now.
The 2019 is getting sold. Hahaha. Too bad, too, because I really loved how it looked, but oh well.
It’s possible the white or green pressings don’t have the noise issues, and it did sound good when really cranked, so if 2019 is your only option, I mean, it’s not horrible.

But now I feel like I have to find a NM VS, so I guess I have to find some more records to sell. Guess I’ll go through my They Live copies next?
How did I miss this??

Huge thanks man - really helpful. I was very much on the fence regarding the latest DW reissue (I happen to not like the artwork treatment at all!) but now I am decidedly OFF the fence... and happily sticking with my n.mint VS which I've had since I was about 15 btw! I also have a VG+ German edition with same artwork (and from same source as the VS), which is my go-to playing copy. Perhaps if the DW had some different material I could be arm-twisted, but nah - gonna pass and save my pennies for some other treats tomorrow/RSD ;)
By EvanCampbell
#117071
Scott excellent breakdown! I think the only one I do not have is the Gem version. As far as the original vs Mondo...to my ears it sounds exactly as you describe. Just a hair light in the low end. Great thread!
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