Talk about films scores here.

Moderators: lazyben, static14, texasvinyl

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By ScoJo
#114371
Comparisons:

00. BUIO OMEGA - Goblin (by @ScoJo)
01. ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK - John Carpenter (by @ScoJo)
02. THEY LIVE - John Carpenter (by @ScoJo)
03. PRINCE OF DARKNESS - John Carpenter (by @havershaw)
04. PHANTASM - Fred Myrow & Malcolm Seagrave (by @ScoJo)
05. NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD - Various (by @ScoJo)
06. HALLOWEEN - John Carpenter (by ScoJo)
07. THE FOG - John Carpenter (by @ScoJo)
08. PROM NIGHT - Carl Zittrer (by @ScoJo)
09. DAY OF THE DEAD - John Harrison (by @havershaw)
10. CREEPSHOW - John Harrison (by @ScoJo)
11. THE LIVING DEAD AT MANCHESTER MORGUE - Giuliano Sorgini (by @ScoJo)
12. REANIMATOR - Richard Band (by @ScoJo)
13. DAWN OF THE DEAD/ZOMBI - Goblin (by @ScoJo)
14. HALLOWEEN III: SEASON OF THE WITCH - John Carpenter (by @ScoJo)
15. FROM BEYOND - Richard Band (by @Scojo)
16. THE BEYOND - Fabio Frizzi (by @deafmetal)
16. ZOMBIE 2 - Fabio Frizzi (by @deafmetal)

Had this idea for a corner of the forum whilst riding bike yesterday. A place for us to share and compare wisdom with each other about different releases of the same film soundtrack/score. Thought it'd be useful, what with us all grabbing releases at different times, and maybe will help with deciding whether one needs a certain reissue or whatnot?

I don't have anything particularly in mind to kick this off (though my recent brief analysis of the new DW Buio Omega kinda gave me the idea: http://spintheblackestcircles.org/bb/vi ... 93#p114193), so please have at it if you're interested in contributing. I look forward to some groovy comparison intel, whether it be thin crust or deep dish- just make it tasty!
Last edited by ScoJo on Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:16 am, edited 18 times in total.
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By Mateo Sanboval
#114374
Great idea, ScoJ. I'll be interested in hearing folks wax and wane on the new They Live reissue versus that original DWRC reish.
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By ScoJo
#114376
Mateo Sanboval wrote:Great idea, ScoJ. I'll be interested in hearing folks wax and wane on the new They Live reissue versus that original DWRC reish.
Well stay tuned then, pilgrim - mine should be en route!
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By texasvinyl
#114410
The pic disc sounds like a proper LP and not at all like a pic disc. It cost me $75 shipped and worth every penny, what a stunning package. The first DW reissue was fine and good, better than fine. But this new one is the bees knees.
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By Bezulsqy
#114420
texasvinyl wrote:The pic disc sounds like a proper LP and not at all like a pic disc. It cost me $75 shipped and worth every penny, what a stunning package. The first DW reissue was fine and good, better than fine. But this new one is the bees knees.
This is very good news for me. I do not own any variant of this score but this release should be on my way soon.

Also @ScoJo: great idea this thread! I did wanted to know about some different versions.
For instance Escape From New York. What is the best one to get? I also did not have any version of that one. Yes, I know... But I have a variant of the first DWRC re-issue on the way.
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By DigitalHiss
#114423
Correct me if I'm wrong on EFNY releases (I've only got the original CD and reissue "expanded" CD...no vinyl yet!) but I think on the reissue Howarth tinkered with some of the sounds/rerecorded some bits.

I know between CDs - the "synth" piano in the theme is replaced by a more realistic sounding synth piano and some of the "stingers" are missing (I think the high pitched note near the end of the theme is altered/missing as well as the stinger in President at the Train) There might be more differences but those are the ones that stood out to me.

Again, I don't own any of the vinyl versions so I'd like to know myself what any differences are..
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By ScoJo
#114427
DigitalHiss wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong on EFNY releases (I've only got the original CD and reissue "expanded" CD...no vinyl yet!) but I think on the reissue Howarth tinkered with some of the sounds/rerecorded some bits.

I know between CDs - the "synth" piano in the theme is replaced by a more realistic sounding synth piano and some of the "stingers" are missing (I think the high pitched note near the end of the theme is altered/missing as well as the stinger in President at the Train) There might be more differences but those are the ones that stood out to me.

Again, I don't own any of the vinyl versions so I'd like to know myself what any differences are..
@DH - well this is all very interesting, I had no idea about these Howarth 'revisions' across the CDs!

So it looks like I have my first intensive 'comparison' project ahead of me. I have the Varese, TER, and Silva Screen vinyl editions to cross reference. I moved on my DWRC and Dagored copies unfortunately. I'll plan to at least compare the title track across all editions that I have, listening out for any of those Howarth updates!

@Digi, if you can find a YouTube rip of the title track from either CD, I'll happily throw that into the mix too ;)
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By ScoJo
#114440
Right!? So, does it then follow that the expanded vinyl releases (which are essentially the CD remastered for wax?) are also the 'tweaked' versions??

This has all got me in a lather tbh, especially since (until the recent DW 40th anniversary 'from the 35mm' version showed it clearly) I also had no idea that the 4/4 'thump' on the Halloween title track was added by AH just for the original Varese LP!
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By Mateo Sanboval
#114442
ScoJo wrote:Right!? So, does it then follow that the expanded vinyl releases (which are essentially the CD remastered for wax?) are also the 'tweaked' versions??
Yes.
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By ScoJo
#114448
DigitalHiss wrote:ScoJo, a sample of one of the differnces...

Original 1981 theme...listen to the synth 36 seconds in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1JYDmo19to
Expanded edition..listen at :36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8keNgWwAtk
What-in-the-actual-fuck??

And- the speed/key has been changed!?!

Okay- you have my full attention. The Escape From New York 'Comparison Project' begins in earnest tomorrow!!

(I don't want to jump the gun here, but I will say this- I have always been a bit suspicious of AH as the gatekeeper of Carpenter's early scores... and I fucking hate revisionism. Draw your own conclusions as to what kind of feelings the revelations in the above videos are stirring in me...)

More: anon!
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By Hatter313
#114449
Well.....so I regret clicking this thread....

Your idea has run away with our OCD ScoJo haha
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By deafmetal
#114453
ScoJo wrote:(I don't want to jump the gun here, but I will say this- I have always been a bit suspicious of AH as the gatekeeper of Carpenter's early scores... and I fucking hate revisionism. Draw your own conclusions as to what kind of feelings the revelations in the above videos are stirring in me...)
Agreed, whether good or bad in the end, AH has definitely played a gatekeeper role, and he will speak at length on the topic if you ask him. Supposedly, JC gave him free reign to release new studio recordings of the soundtrack albums. This is also very obvious with The Thing expanded CD/2LP.

Already loving this thread. I will volunteer to work on Frizzi's trio of Zombi 2/City of the Living Dead/The Beyond.
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By ScoJo
#114454
deafmetal wrote:
ScoJo wrote:(I don't want to jump the gun here, but I will say this- I have always been a bit suspicious of AH as the gatekeeper of Carpenter's early scores... and I fucking hate revisionism. Draw your own conclusions as to what kind of feelings the revelations in the above videos are stirring in me...)
Agreed, whether good or bad in the end, AH has definitely played a gatekeeper role, and he will speak at length on the topic if you ask him. Supposedly, JC gave him free reign to release new studio recordings of the soundtrack albums. This is also very obvious with The Thing expanded CD/2LP.

Already loving this thread. I will volunteer to work on Frizzi's trio of Zombi 2/City of the Living Dead/The Beyond.
@deaf - you have the job as far as I'm concerned sir. When can you start? (We don't offer any dental, just to be clear ;)
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By Hatter313
#114469
So is the DW pressing of EFNY a repress of the original, or the howarth tweaked that I NOW realize I’ve been listening to digitally for years. I’ll check myself when I get home but it just struck me that I may have a copy of the original mix and that’s gonna bother the hell out of me.
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By ScoJo
#114470
Hatter313 wrote:So is the DW pressing of EFNY a repress of the original, or the howarth tweaked that I NOW realize I’ve been listening to digitally for years. I’ll check myself when I get home but it just struck me that I may have a copy of the original mix and that’s gonna bother the hell out of me.
I'm gonna get thorough on this later today, but I think that the source of the DW repress is the same as the Dagored perhaps (but omitting the dialogue). I'll add this to the list of things that need FACKIN' CLARIFICATION, PRONTO!! (in best Jason Statham voice)
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By ScoJo
#114528
COMPARISON CORNER #1:
by Skødjö

-------------

ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK
Music Composed and Performed by John Carpenter
in association with Alan Howarth


I'll be comparing the Main Title track on each release, in chronological order, and saying a little something about the track listing differences across each version. As I no longer have the Death Waltz edition, I'm using a nice rip on Youtube as a comparison. As a base-line, I'm flipping back and forth to the movie to compare directly to the source.

1. Varese Sarabande (1981, STV 81134)
VARESE.jpg
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This is the first release of the score, and so far there is just the movie to compare it with. And it sounds very close. As we'll find out soon enough, later editions have different mixes, added instrumentation and other tweaks. But for now, I'm just happy to discover that, given 'Carte Blanche' (supposedly) by JC to mix the LP versions of his scores as he saw fit, the first release of this score is very close to the movie. I'd say there's perhaps a touch of additional piano backing the main melody synth, but the drums sound the same and are mixed similarly to the film soundtrack. The Varese release is winning so far!! ;)

2. That's Entertainment Records (1981, TER 1011)
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This is the UK release, and for all intents and purposes sounds like the Varese - if I'm not mistaken, TER licensed VS's titles for the UK, and used the same masters (and possibly the same pressing materials). The track listing is identical to the VS. So again - a good sounding record, and close to the beloved movie version. Another winner.

3. Dagored (2000, red 124-1)
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Bit of a jump forwards (there are multiple other releases of the score throughout the 80s in different countries, all with the same tracklisting as the above, so one can probably assume they are the same source). This is the first expanded vinyl release, and the tracklisting lines up with the 2000 Silva Screen 'digitally remastered' CD release so again, it seems a fair assumption to think they're from the same source.
This is a different mix of the title, with additional instrumentation - most noticeably: there is a 'doubling up' of keys for the melody, where previously it was just played on a synth we now have a louder piano alongside, and possibly a third sound as well. The net effect is that there seems to be chords rather than single notes playing this theme. The kick drum sound is more present, and the tambourine hits are MUCH louder. The ascending high pitched synth signalling the last part of the track has either been replaced or buried beneath more piano/other sounds.
So we can safely say that, given free reign, AH chose to completely remix the track for this expanded release, not just remastering the original mix. Hmmm. Starting to feel glad that I still have my OG Varese edition.
But having said that, the expanded track listing includes the essential, banging cue "The Bank Robbery' from the 10minute long deleted scene, and there are some other great cues which were previously unreleased ('Snake Shake' is amazing, and is practically a template for Harold Faltermeyer's 80s scores!). The album is also chock full of dialogue pulls from the movie, and all in all there is a LOT squeezed onto two sides of an LP. The grooves go right up to the centre label on both sides, giving it a little kiss. Yet despite that, I've had a quick listen to the last track on both Side A and B, and they sound pretty good.

4. Death Waltz Recording Co. (2012, DW002)
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It's immediately apparent on this starting that it's the same mix as the above 'digitally remastered' version from 2000. Tracklisting is the same as the Dagored/Silva Screen CD, but with the excision of the dialogue tracks. It does still have quite a bit of music pushed onto it, but the mastering sounds good and it probably benefits, sound wise, from the removal of the dialogue tracks. It certainly the one to go for if you prefer your scores without yakkety-yak (as many people seemed to comment after the Mondo expanded Halloween release from 2013...)

5. Silva Screen (2015, SILLP1493) 2x LP at 33rpm
SILVA.jpg
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This is Silva Screen's 2000 CD remastered for vinyl, using AH's remix which has been used for both the previous Dagored and DWRC releases - born out from the sleeve notes and remastering info which are dated 2000. This includes the dialogue tracks and is the same track listing as the Dagored, but as it is across 4x sides it is undeniably the best bet for sound quality. It's also been in print constantly since this first reissue, which is a Good Thing.

So to sum up, it's something like this:

If you want to hear the music as it is in the film itself, you'll be looking for either the OG Varese pressings or the myriad licensed releases within Europe on TER, Colliseum etc (the German Celine release from '82 has a really bad ass sleeve with promo image of Snake, and I'm ordering a copy right now! It's gettable for real cheap).



If you are good with the tweaks and remixing which Howarth undertook in 2000, and want to have the expanded release, and are happy with dialogue tracks, you're definitely looking at the Silva Screen 2xLP (which effectively makes the Dagored obsolete...)

If you want the 2000 AH mix without the dialogue tracks, your only option is the Death Waltz which sounds great, and you have a choice of colour versions inc. split colours. But for the purist, there is the first DW reissue of 500 copies on black wax, and is relatively easy and cheap to snag.

--------------

Hear endeth my findings, folks. I'm afraid I just don't have the time nor where withall to compare more than the title track across these editions, but it's hopefully enough that you can get a clear sense of which release uses which source etc. It would be very interesting if someone were to digitize the main track from each version and compare the waveform/frequency plot etc.... but I am not that soldier :)

And now, thoroughly depressed about 'revisionism' and the enforced obsolescing of original artworks 'because we have new tools', I'm off to soak my poor noggin.

You thought I was dead/taller?
Last edited by ScoJo on Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By deafmetal
#114529
Skødjö wrote:And now, thoroughly depressed about 'revisionism' and the enforced obsolescing of original artworks 'because we have new tools', I'm off to soak my poor noggin.
/thread - worth its weight in digital coin!
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By Hatter313
#114530
Looks like I’m after an older release then, even if just a digital rip so I can listen to the closest to the film version on my commute.

I KNEW something was off the last time I watched the movie, and it had been a while since I threw the DW on the platter.

Yeomans work ScoJo, cheers
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