[flapdoodle]

Record store day: or how to p*ss of record buyers.

I buy music every week, and over the last month have picked up Halloween II and III soundtracks as 'impulse' buys in HEAD in Leamington Spa. (And the soundtrack to Emmanuelle in the second hand section was a find I'm particularly pleased with.) Not to mention vinyl from HMV, CDs from HMV and a vinyl edition of City of the Living Dead from an online store. Oh, and the new Ian Anderson album in a somewhat large box that will be filed away in a box somewhere (I wanted to discs, not a bloody coffee table book - another annoyance. Why can't I just get the discs?)

But this Record Store Day thing is annoying, especially when it's stuff that I'd buy anyway if I saw it... Not because it's some sort of limited edition, but because I buy stuff by Nico Fidenco and co. and quite often can be found in the attic slumped over a word processor while a Fabio Frizzi record clicks away on the final grooves. Not only is it annoying because I probably won't get out in time (Kids!) to get the one copy they may (Or may not) have, the rest will be sold onto to some subscription that you can't join easily... I just it for the music. Has everyone forgotten that? No doubt these'll pop up on ebay the following day for hugely inflated prices...

I think I'll wait until Beat in Italy releases this stuff on CD. (Just received two Fidenco soundtracks, Zombi Holocaust and Porno Holocaust from them).

Talk about taking all the fun out of record buying, a mad scramble through the great unwashed who are strangely absent most saturdays when I'm buying music. Record (And CD) buying is all about leafing through racks and finding those unexpected gems (Like Halloween III & II, or the jazz reissues from Japan on CD, or the new album by some obscure band who I long thought had split up.).

[deathwaltz]

I have moved this as posting in the DW thread was not relevant.

[NathanLurker]

hey flapdoodle have you tried buddying up with a current subber ? I mean, if I find the Death Waltz releases in store on RSD I might just buy them there and then I'd still be able to buy the releases online the day after.

and to be fair, last year I got the RSD titles of DeathWaltz (steve moore / Antoni Maiovvi) at regular price on discogs, and I wasn't a subber, so I'm pretty sure that the inflated ebay pricing that's inevitable on RSD day won't last very long because there WILL be some sellers who'll put that stuff up at a regular price at some point.

I mean, no need to be angry at the whole RSD concept, I'm pretty sure there's a workaround to get the stuff you need. at least with the DW releases.

[antimax]

So, you're upset because... You can't buy records you want to buy? Or... Because people buy new records, and not exclusively old releases...? I've read your entire post and I don't get what you're actually complaining about.

You know, the whole idea behind record store day is to get people INTO record stores! You know, the places where you can flip through dusty old records and find a hidden gem? Like you seem to prefer? Keep that in mind.

And yes, "flippers" suck. We all agree on that.

[siforster]

The problem I have with Record Store Day itself is that it doesn't allow you to browse for that hidden gem - not in my local one anyway, where the recommendation for starting to queue is 2am, and you go in with a pre-printed list, pay, and have to leave straight away so that the next round of queuers can get in. It's all the more annoying because it looks like one of the 4 FLK records will almost certainly be in there, and even if I could attend this year (which I sadly can't, it's the one day of the Easter weekend when I'm working) I wouldn't be able to look through the racks for it as the instore system won't allow for it.

What RSD does do that should be applauded is remind people that such store still exist, and that it may well be worth popping back round on Monday to see what's left over, or even hand on for a week for the - admittedly rather fun - online bunfest to find and order stuff at cost which the eBay knobs are already shifting at stupid prices.


Speaking of stupid prices, is there some way of capping some of the more ridiculous excesses? £10.99 for a Nirvana 7" 'limited' to 6,000? Rolling Stones 7"s for £13.99 - are they that skint? Maybe putting an upper ceiling per format might help get more people shopping, and it could even curb the worst cases of just releasing old records or novelty tat.

And finally, a Q for Spencer - I've been reading a bit this year that the newly-privately owned (and therefore now technically independant) HMV is looking to get in on the shenanigans in the future. Is this a sign of once-enemies finding common ground against a hostile market, or is this something that other indies are worried about?

[ghostfires]

I agree with Si that there is no room/chance to search a record store ON record store day. You are filed in, shown the exclusives, pushed/shoved to the counter, and then shuffled out the door. There is no record store experience for that day.

I don't know the perfect answer on how to fix RSD, but it isn't fun any longer. Waiting in line for four or five hours is as stupid as people waiting outside of Best Buy on Black Friday in hopes of getting a cheaper TV.

Think about it - if you are a normal person with a job, maybe a family...and you want to buy RSD release A, so you show up at your local record shop the morning of RSD and you see a long line standing out front. The two guys at the front of the line say they're there to pick up RSD release A...and the store manager comes out to say "yes, we have RSD release A...but just two copies. Good luck!" - what is fun about that? You now know you took the time to go down to your local shop (in my case I have to drive about 40 mins now) only to find out that what you had hoped to be listening to later that day has been sold to the two guys willing to wait outside the shop all night. I don't care about asking the question - is that right? - because record stores, record labels, etc. have all the rights in the world to sell their products as they see fit. My question is...is this worth it for most non-flipper vinyl buyers any more?

[NathanLurker]

All your stores (everyone on the board) seem to have crazy traffic. Last year I went to the closest store to my home and there was no waiting line. they didn't ahve all the rsd stuff, it's a smaller store, but they had quite a few. and there was a lot of people in store but it still pretty manageable.

[deathwaltz]

Here's an interview I did with the quietus

http://thequietus.com/articles/15031-re ... tion-vinyl

[ravenevermore]

I buy records... well, not every week, but I'm looking for them every week, be it in dedicated stores, charity shops, car boot sales... wherever I happen to find myself.

Sometimes I turn up the truly unexpected (A Fanclub only 7" of the Grateful Deads 'Dark Star' that appears to have never been opened, Jon Pertwee 'Sings Songs for Vulgar Boatmen', or an LP of Hitler. Yeah.), sometimes I turn up albums or soundtracks I'd forgotten how much I loved (Last week I found a very nice condition copy of 'The Black Hole' for £2), and then there's that search for my personal Holy Grails (Still looking for a reasonably priced copy of Terry Rileys 'A Rainbow in Curved Air'). But that's my day to day state of record buying. Record Store Day is different.

Let's take last year. I decided to go somewhere different for RSD. My local store is exclusively second hand and wasn't doing anything special, so I didn't risk offending there. I journeyed out to Guildford as a first point of call and ended up at People Records (owned by Howard Smith, former drummer of The Vapors).

They didn't have any of the Death Waltz releases I was after (which I later picked up from If Music, at retail price) but they did have most of the other titles I wanted, it also had a great atmosphere. Record collecting can sometimes be a singular hobby, but that morning stood outside sharing conversations, wishlists, cake and stories with other customers was a nice social environment. It also lead me to Ben's Collectors Records round the corner, where there was a Stoner Rock/Folk duo playing and more crates of records than I knew what to do with. I ended up walking away from there with over 40 LP's in addition to what I'd hoped to get that day.

It was a day of exploration, a day of new stores and new people, and I'm doing it again this year, heading down to Brighton to see what I can get at Resident Music and follow it up by exploring all the other nooks and crannies where I might find more musical oddities.

Like @Antimax I'm not exactly sure what you're mad about other than the record buying world doesn't revolve exclusively around what you want all year round, and that you don't like boxsets. And you know what? That's ok. But perhaps consider changing your opening gambit from 'How to piss off Record Buyers' to 'How to piss me off', or 'How to piss off a certain section of Record Buyers, of which I am one'.
You're generalizing massively with that statement. The world is what you make of it and I treat RSD as a day of celebration of all the types of music I like. I know I won't get everything on my wish list and that's ok, because I might just get something I wasn't expecting. I don't expect everyone to see it the same way I do, heck, I may be the only person who treats it the way I do. But I don't try and speak for others, that's not how it works.

I hope you enjoy your record buying flapdoodle, be it on RSD or any other day, and that all your wishlist comes to be, one way or the other.

[seb]

Guess I'm pretty lucky here in Belgium...

Tomorrow around 10 I walk into my small local record store where I pick up about ten of my 15 RSD wants. No cues, no hassle.
Then it's a 20 minutes drive to a bigger store where I pick up a couple more of my wants + watch a band and have a brew.

The ones I don't find are US exclusives which I will pick up online or though the forum next week.

I'm happy to say that for me RSD is a fun day (except for my wallet) and I don't have to put up with all the crap listed here.
I wish all of you the same experience. Have fun, have a brewski and good luck digging.

[NathanLurker]

Thank you for the Quietus interview link Spencer, interesting stuff.
and thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences I appreciate the read

[crazybeats]

I think my gripe with RSD every year isn't the ques or the releases it's the fact that what I want is always just a handful of records. I don't go seeking out a big list of things and this year for instance I think the only things I want is the Camera Obscura EP, Terminator 7", the Wizard Of Oz soundtrack and possibly Coraline. There was a few others like the One Direction 7" which I think is cool, there's nothing wrong with pop music and I know that my local stores have stock of it although I'm sure it wont be many copies but my problem is just knowing that I'm only after a few certain things and sometimes I can only get a few in the UK, I need to get the others online because they are exclusive to other countries so the chances of me going out on RSD and coming home empty handed is highly probable. I wish I was one of those people that had big lists and are guaranteed to come home happy but I'm not.


I can also see why the independents have trouble with their releases getting lost in the shuffle and maybe that's a good thing, maybe something could be arranged at another point in the year or a holiday like a bank holiday or something where a big fuss is made only for independent labels but I think when it's possible and if the prices are right and that's really down to the store owners, having your releases next to the big ones from the big labels can only do your sales good. Maybe that's where store owners need to work a big closer with the labels and make sure that their releases are on the shelves and are well represented on the day. It's always obvious which releases are going to be popular so you don't need them all around the shop, they will sell regardless, and it goes by territory too. I'm in Scotland so I'm sure I will get the Camera Obscura 12" easily because they are Scottish. I'm sure independent labels could work with their local cities and speak to the store owners and make sure their releases are promoted on the day.

[siforster]

As is mentioned in that excellent Quietus piece with Spencer (I read it last night and it's a great, well-balanced interview on both sides) and as Seb has also mentioned elsewhere recently, the means of manufacture is now being outstripped by the demand for product, especially at this time of year - dunno about anyone else here, but I can think of a good half a dozen vinyl release this year alone where "production delays" have knocked release dates out (which can severely bugger up preplanned tour promotions and label release/PR strategies). The most recent one being Warp's delay of Squarepusher's "Music For Robots", which strikes me as being slightly ironic!

Investment in new production facilities is a must for this market revival to continue, as without new record-pressing plants not only will delays and cancellations become more of a norm, but when older lathes fail (and they're all old) the number of available resources will become rarer and more expensive to use. Can't see how this is going to happen though, as majors are too concerned with re-releasing guaranteed sellers to collectors (again) and trying to squeeze as much as they can from the digital model that they don't seem to be that arsed.
If you win your country's national lottery this weekend, you know what to do

[jgibbs4053]

This will be my first RSD and the manager of Gravity Records ( store I go to) told me people get in line about 3am when they open at 8! Luckily I'm use to waking up at 530 due to a baby, but it does sound pretty miserable. Either way still excited!

[reddye6]

For the places that I've gone for RSD, it's been wall to wall with people shoving and pushing, circling like vultures over the new stuff and not venturing into the rest of the store. Most of the stuff that I want to get I have to get online, anyway, which is the opposite of what the day is supposed to be about. This year I'm going to take a more relaxed approach. I'll go late morning instead of getting in line. I've shortened my list to what I really want instead of nice to haves. And I'll go in with the expectation that I won't find most of what I want and I'll hopefully be able to get what I want online later.

[siforster]

Hope you have a grand day and can get all you want to get!

Apologies if I come over as a bit of a misery on here - it's not my intention as I've long-supported RSD both in terms of what it hopes to achieve (and has done so admirably over the years!) and much of the stuff that has come out of it. It's just that this year feels a bit weird and (for want of a better word) competitive compared to others

[Darren LD1984]

Don't waste time worrying about what other people do on RSD. Make your own buzz out of it. I have records I'd like to get, but the world wont end if I don't. Go have some fun and if anything else, it's the one time where you get to drink beer in a record store in the middle of the day with your buddies and not get thrown out.

[Garmonbozia]

I appreciate the intent behind RSD. I think the people behind this have their heart in the right place and it's great to hear some areas aren't affected by the Black Fridayesque ugly mob vibe, but around here, it's pretty miserable. Most of the reasons have already been mentioned, but it's the opposite of having a fun day of record shopping. Luckily (for me), my list of non DW releases is very small and nothing would bum me out too bad and my local shop is likely getting in the DW stuff late, so I'm just going to do my record shopping today and not deal with being shoved around tomorrow morning.

[tonyandrewgiles]

@darren - couldn't have said it better buddy.

[fanboy]

Last year was my first year participating in RSD by lining up early and hoping to get what I wanted. My store is quite small and doesn't get any of the big wants on my list. No DW, no Mondo, no OWS. I walked out with 3 things last year. While I did enjoy the cold line and talking vinyl with an old co-worker lined up behind me, I didn't enjoy the push of being let in when my # was called and feeling rushed to dig so someone else could get in. I can think of better things to do on a Saturday morning when my girlfriend and I don't have our kids.

This year I will be strolling in well rested around 10 with a hot coffee. I'll take my time browsing the RSD section, check the freshly stocked used section for some 80s metal gems and enjoy a cookie. I've learned that just about any release can be found later for near cost anyway. I'm done with the "would be cool to have" stuff and getting more of what I really want to listen to.

Best of luck to everyone going out tomorrow!

[dumaisaudio]

I'm working all day so this will be the first year since I started attending in 2009 that I won't be there when the shops open. Honestly, I'm fine with that. Death Waltz has me covered with their releases, and while there's other stuff I'd get if I could, I'm not really disappointed, as I can spend the money on other things.

Spencer's comments in the article on Quietus pretty much sums up my feelings, and the feeling two of the owners of local shops I frequent. It's gotten too big for it's own good. It does take the enjoyment out of it when you cue up hours ahead of time, get let in 20 at a time, and feel rushed to grab what you want and get out. That's the experience at most of the stores around here because their shops aren't that big so only X amount of people can fit in there at one time. I'll go by on Sunday and see what's left.

I do enjoy what Spencer and Seb are doing, making sure that the fans who really want these releases can get them at the retail price.

[Re-animated Cat]

I think Si pretty much nailed it. The point about the production delays is a worrying one (I've was caught up in it myself this year), especially considering that RSD will grow each year now the majors have really started to cash in.

The thing with RSD day is, yes it's a bit of a joke, the prices are ridiculous and the release list gets worse each year (seriously, there's nothing I want this year, apart from maybe Perfume of the Lady, which I'll grab online at a later date)... BUT people need to realise that it's not designed for 'real' record buyers. It's designed to encourage NEW people into record stores, if only for one day a year. It's a novelty occasion, it's not about the music, or even about vinyl, it's about getting bodies into stores and boosting the revenue of independent businesses. That can only be a good thing. When you look at it like that, it's no wonder 99% of the releases are trash.

I wish everyone a fun day tomorrow, but personally, I'll be staying at home and ordering some records I really want (and supporting some indie labels at the same time).

Watch yourselves out there guys, it's gonna get messy!

[siforster]

Speaking of messy, HMV in Ireland have announced a Record Store Celebration for tomorrow with a new store opening. Tower Records are having a bit of a moan (parketing?), nobody at the Irish Times thought to find any local indie stores to ask.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music ... -1.1758990

[crazybeats]

They're doing 40% off vinyl though aren't they? I know a lot of people on Twitter in Ireland can't stop talking about it. Good for them I say.

What I'm going to say is unpopular and believe I've said similar things before and even had comments removed from websites and facebook pages because it kind of goes against the grain with RSD and really what a lot of people think it is.

I've bought records for years but for years I treated it as a music medium just like for years I treated cassette tapes as a medium because we couldn't afford CDs and then I ended up I did end up buying some CDs and I still buy CDs but it's always been a way to listen to music. The whole point was to listen to music and we couldn't afford top of the range music systems, I only in recent years have gotten a really top end system but that's because I keep everything and I still buy music and I feel like I get my moneys worth out of it. Again, I listen to the music, that's why I buy it. Obviously in the UK things have changed, the high street has changed. I'm not ashamed to say that I like popular music or that I kind of like the big labels. I think there is a lot of snobbery involved with a lot of people that buy records. I see it this year with the One Direction single which is great to see BTW.

I think there was a divide. Singles used to be big. Even when sales were low, they still made singles. Here's another big no no when commenting on record stores, I remember going into Virgin Megastores and HMVs in 2008 and seeing 7" singles, 12" singles, imports, albums, clearance sections, CD singles. Many chart 7" singles were £1.99. The most you would pay is £4.99 and that was usually a picture disc or gatefold with poster, it would have been something special. Promos! If you like popular music or urban music, promos were a gift. Literally. They would be sent out in advance of the street date of the retail release, sometimes stuff would get sent out as a promo and never make it to retail. Radio mixes, instrumentals, acapellas, all that good stuff. So for someone like me, that is heaven. The labels are releasing everything you like on the format you like at a price that you like. Good times. Then in 2009 the end started to come and this ties into what others are saying about waiting times. I understand singles aren't popular anymore. I get it. The UK now relies on Itunes and Amazon for their MP3s. But we're not talking a lifetime ago. We're talking 5 years. How can all these labels go from sending out promos pretty much on a weekly basis, sending out 7" or 12" versions of most of the UK TOP SINGLES which change every week, to being on such a backlog? What happened to all those pressing plants. What changed? Where did they go and how do we get them back? It's only 5 years ago.

If you can press thousands of records per month and send them out to DJs and music reviewers for free and ON TIME then on the street date have records pressed and on the shelves ON TIME and you're doing that every week and have been doing that every week for the past 20 years...why can't it continue? Can they not build more of these machines or find out where they went or who they sold them to? I'm not wanting my heaven back that ended in 2009. I'm at peace with it. I understand my days of going out every Monday and buying 7" and 12" singles of music I like isn't coming back because there is more important things to release like David Bowie albums and ACDC albums and I'm sure there will be room for some Abba and Fleetwood Mac. All important albums.......every 12 months or so but I think people like that. I think that's what some people treat record store as. It's a celebration of a bygone era. It must be about those kinds of artists. We can't anything modern even though as little as 5 years ago the market was full of modern acts. In some ways the One Direction 7" single is cruel because those youngsters that go and buy it will be hit with a hard dose of reality, they'll realize that it's a one off. It wont be happening regularly but if it did happen regularly I bet you they would be going to those stores more often.

That's my little thing about it. You see big labels like Warner Bros and Polydor and they do their bit for RSD every year but I'd like to see it done more often. Not a big day of the year for big releases. Maybe just look at what is selling well in the musical world and release a 7" here or a 12" there. Maybe 3 or 4 times a year. Keep the tradition alive a bit. Even if it's just every few months. Release that one big single or that one big album that everyone's talking about on vinyl and give us a reason to go back again and visit the record stores. I remember loads of people couldn't believe Susan Boyle's album never made it to vinyl due to herself talking about how much she loved records and then there is the older market for her music and then it sold so well that there's no way they wouldn't have sold them. I'm all about the music and I'd like to see an effort made to get younger people into the stores and buying the music whether it's a 7", 12" or maybe even a CD single priced at £1.99.

[jgibbs4053]

I know this is a little late, but does anyone know if there is a set price for albums or a site to look them up? trying to figure out how much money ill need for tomorrow.