[NathanLurker]

Nah man it's chill.
My friends roll their eyes at me when I tell them I bought doubles of a release or that I got all color variants. and they ask me why the hell I need doubles of bad music (sometimes they think my music is bad and they tell it to me in those words and that's ok, it's bad to them, it's not to me) and it's a pretty valid question. they make fun of me sometimes. one of my friend this evening told me she'd maybe bring me a souvenir from a trip, and my other friend told her to make sure it's limited to 20 copies, in the limited color, still sealed in an unopened box.

[Garmonbozia]

ghostfires, you're not very good at not being a dick

[deathwaltz]

Ghostfires not sure what I have done to upset you but clearly I have...
I didn't say it makes me angry I said it worries/upsets me . Two different things in my book.
Like I said I have multiples of stuff like Tenebre but it's taken years to get them.
Seb kindly sent me a pic disc of last house probably cause he was proud of it I'm sorry if that bothers you . I posted a pic of it as it's a cool record for folks that missed out on the original now deleted release.
I collect records by bands such as Prur,ient and Botch but I only buy one copy .
Yes I'm lucky to be sent the odd copy here and there by the odd label , myself and Seb are pretty good friends which is why he's sent me his record . He also sent me two copies of Hills one coloured and one black (I gave the black version to my girlfriend) I don't get A+ treatment and miss out on loads of releases (Devil Doll for example which I have since picked up)
I am pretty open on here and post every day I like the fact that I can chat direct to folks who A) dig what I do and B) are fans like me.
I didn't ' build my business initially selling color variants' I built it by releasing records to pretty amazing soundtracks that had pretty much been forgotten by EVERYONE in the industry - I had fun doing things like the splatter Zombi 2, I'm a collector and it appealed to me , it still does but also as someone that is both a fan and in the thick of it business wise I think I am allowed to say it also worries me.
I floated the idea of a bare bones black vinyl sub on the the DW thread because I thought in these finacially challanging times some folks would maybe just want the music and don't care about all the other gubbins.
I spend a LOT of money on our releases and when we started I had no idea if people would buy or be interested. It's amazing to see pics online of happy people with the score to Ms.45 because they never thought they would own it.

I didn’t see it as opening a dialog – I saw it as someone that’s realizing another shift could be coming in the vinyl business, and he is using this forum to shape the opinion of his buyers to sway in the direction that would be most profitable for his venture, damn anyone else’s.

I have worked in the Industry for nearly 30 years and one thing I have learnt is that you can't force people to buy into what you do , I don't think a shift is coming at all, I am just saying that personally as a label we are going to change people will either come with or vote by not buying. I not some cynical label owner sat in an ivory tower I started this forum with Seb to engagewith people and build a community and I actually LIKE posting here , It's pretty relaxed we are mostly here for the same thing (music) and an open discussion is always good. I certainlt wasn't 'questioning' Ras I was merely asking him , he's been buying my recrods since day one and I certainly wasn't trying to be a dick.

Like I say I don't know what I have done to rile you so much , apologies whatever it is I was merely asking a question that relates to this very niche scene we are all into, DW will continue along the path that we created , I just wanted other people thoughts is all.

[seb]

It is definitely true that DW has been guilty of profiting from the whole variants thing, and Spencer’s partly to blame for the mess it’s become. So yes, it’s a little hypocritical of him (and of OWS too, who are complaining about variants whilst at the same time promoting yet another variant for RSD).

Re-Animated Cat : I get your point on the picture disc : but this is a different thing. Last House is completely sold out. This is for everyone who did not get the chance to buy it when it came out, support indie stores and get some cash to the Hess family. It's not meant to shove another variant down in people throats it's meant to reach an audience who are not familiar with OWS and who do not own it.

It's like with the DW Maniac. Tons of people asked for a DW version in the US since the Mondo one was sold out instantly. Spencer listened and pressed a version for the US market (I know this wasn't easy convincing the powers that be, with all the rights etc.) He pressed it on Clear frosted vinyl. Did he want to push another variant to kids who already own it? No..he listened to his base and made it happen.

I think a lot of good points are being made here and I'm glad we opened this discussion.
But sometimes there is more than meets the eye.

[deathwaltz]

Well you'll be able to buy Black vinyl soon enough in a nice sleeve and poly lined inners.
Seb is right with our Maniac clear vinyl we didn't sell it direct in the UK and only made it available in the US on clear becuase they were the folks that missed out on it, we had to repress it and couldn't repress the pic disc or splatter as we advertised them as LTD things like that can put us in a bit of a sticky position really as again I don't want to see folks buying it again , I am trying to make it avaialble to a country that never had the chance to order it in the first place due to licensing.

[deathwaltz]

Dude if I have offended you or pissed you off in anyway I am sorry man.

[maxvelvet]

My contribution to this interesting discussion is...

[freshoj]

I do want to chime in and say that while I agree that it seems that this market is becoming saturated and will probably suffer in the next year or two, I thought that the recent WW Creepshow variants were one of the few cases where I thought the multiple variants made total sense and were a clever and cool idea for that movie. I also loved how they sold them this time around with complete transparency. With that said, I didn't buy any of them.

[Re-animated Cat]

Seb: Okay, I didn't know Last House was sold out - you're right, that's a different situation. Of course there's always more than meets the eye, but the truth is, that doesn't really matter to most people. I was just calling it how it looks from the outside, that's all. I wasn't having a go.

Good discussion.

[Garmonbozia]

Spencer! I woulda never guessed you were a Botch fan. They're from my hometown of Tacoma and were my favorite band for years. Awesome.

[Re-animated Cat]

Poly-lined inners are sexy.

[Garmonbozia]

Pardon my bragging here, but I was apparently such a huge fan that at their 2nd to last show in Seattle, the drummer gave me a copy of the Botch/MCD split on two 7 inch records. Both are purple and each has an etching on the back. There were only 200 made and they were only given out to people who worked on this straightedge film here called Edge of Quarrel.

[seb]

Lol

[skate]

Its probably also worth pointing out that Spencer's original question to Ras wasn't why he purchased multiple variants. It was specifically to do with the Mondo model (providing variants on a random basis), which seemingly resulted in Ras (and likely many others) purchasing multiple copies and ending up with two identical black 'variants'.

I think its certainly a legitimate question - a sales tactic that seemingly encourages customers to buy two copies of a record, that might not turn out to be anything other than identical regular pieces of black wax, has to be a concern for other similar labels in terms of being a threat to the respect and loyalty to the niche as a whole.

Mondo themselves have recently turned up and interacted with their customers on another forum, and somewhat acknowledged that their presence there is due to a dip in sales of recent releases - i.e. stock still remains for all four of their recent releases - a definite shift compared to the speed at which their previous releases sold out.

[deathwaltz]

Which forum is that ?

[jgibbs4053]

What is the other forum?

[ninjaqutie]

This is a great thread! Personally, I don't have any duplicates.... yet! Cannibal Ferox will change that. I got the unedited version and when I found out that it didn't have the title or anything on it, I got the other version too. Plus, I really liked the artwork on it. I might display it in my audio/movie room when I actually get a house. Other than that, I don't really foresee buying duplicates on purpose. My husband does occasionally accidentally buy a used, duplicate, $1 record. Thus, we now carry a digital list of our collection around.

I am really digging the idea of the bare bones, back to black sub for DW. I like the colored variants, but the black is easier on the wallet. If it gets the music to my platter, that is all that matters to me. Just make sure the artwork on the cover still looks awesome.

[dumaisaudio]

What's the other forum you eluded to?

[skate]

Vinyl Collective : http://boards.vinylcollective.com/topic ... getnewpost

[siforster]

Vaguely-related article in the Grauniad today (which doesn't deserve it's own thread) about how apparently 15% of people who buy vinyl nowadays don't listen to it. The subtext seems to be "Buy music? But I'm a music journalist - I get everything emailed to me now", but it's slightly interesting nonetheless.

Linkypops

I myself belong to the group of "buy it, then put it to one side for a bit until I'm properly in the mood for something new/that thing in particular". Sometimes this takes years.

[chandler75]

I'm not surprised. I usually listen to new vinyl within about a week, but I have purchased DVDs and BDs that have been sitting on my "to watch" shelf for 4-5 years...

[cookythecook]

well said!

[ninjaqutie]

I buy things that I am interested in and haven't listened to them yet. My husband and I have bought about 250 LP's in the span of the last 6 months. We just haven't had the time to listen to them all... so yeah, I guess I am guilty of buying and sticking them on the shelf. I know I will get to them eventually, as I don't buy just "because". I only buy things that I genuinely have an interest in, or at the VERY least, a purpose or agenda. Why waste money on vinyl that will take up precious space on my shelf when I could spend it on something I will listen to and enjoy?

[slik]

Any chance we can get back to LPs and records.....Vinyl? Yeah, pretty sure that's just a maleable hydrocarbon.

[ghostfires]

I really am not here trying to pick a fight. I'm a very straight-forward and blunt person, so when I see something I disagree with and it is in an open forum - as long as things don't get out of control then I just might feel a desire to speak up and express my thoughts. It seems some people think I'm out of line for daring to engage Spencer, but I'm merely addressing what I saw as contradictory behavior. I'm not angry here, nor am I trying to be confrontational. It this discussion is uncomfortable for some, don't read!

I do understand Spencer that you get free stuff from some labels and not others, I don't think everyone is sending you free shit non-stop. However, you had tried to tell us all before to take it easy on Mondo, while you're getting free records from them. Meanwhile, we're having a lot of our money tied up in their sales scheme, and all we want is the record or poster or both. We didn't want to be jerked around, ignored, delayed, treated poorly, etc. by them, and to me when you're telling us it's all okay because the owner is a cool guy...that just seems like you're aloof and don't get our concerns because you don't face them. I saw the same line of behavior with the showing off multiples of Last House on IG, while right at the same time coming on here to criticize the newest Waxwork release for having too many variants, and seemingly getting on to those that are willing to buy into that. Again, all that looked to me as though you were were trying to sway everyone with a 'do as I say, not as I do' approach since you have multiples of a new release (regardless of how you got it), and for selling multiples of your own releases.

I can't believe your comment about your experience in the business has taught you that you cannot influence people on what to buy...are you kidding!? Look at pop music! Look at rock! Look at dance music! This has been going on since the 1950s, the ENTIRE industry is built on telling people what to listen to. There is insane proof within the soundtrack community now with these $50 mainstream film soundtracks/compilations coming out from major labels, and people are actually buying theme at those prices! Just because there are some of us that do not follow the major music industry machine does not mean that there aren't those that cannot be swayed within an sub-genre. To be told that it's not possible to tell people what to buy is just disingenuous to me. I'm not claiming you're fully here to do so - you are here open and engaging with your soundtrack peers, yes. Hell that is why half these people in here jump on me immediately instead of listening to what I have to say, they have a strong desire to protect Spencer/DW from any criticism at all times. I guess that is part of the problem I saw with the comments recently in this thread - Spencer, you are well aware that most of these forum members kiss your ass on a regular basis (a crude way of saying they love what you do with DW), love anything and everything you post about, and would never criticize you at all. I'm not saying they are stupid or that it is wrong to do, but my point is that there is such a huge influence you have over these sub-genre buyers - for you to criticize the latest release of Waxwork for doing something you did, just doesn't sit well with me because you are very well aware of the following you have.

I know you said you didn't build your business off of selling variants...that is somewhat untrue. You did build your reputation as a great label by releasing long lost soundtracks, BUT - you became a powerhouse and much more successful more quickly than others by individual customers buying two, three, sometimes four versions of the exact same release. You didn't have them cannibalize your business at all by purchasing multiple variants, you simply put them into the situation where they threw even more money at you to own various editions because they liked the variations of art, colours, limited nature, etc. It is impossible for you to say you would have as much success/profit (and no, I'm not using profit in a negative way) to help you build DW into something this big with just having sold single versions of each release. It seems like the majority of sub-buyers also buy at least one version of the non-sub releases too, so you almost always have that built in - subbers buying two copies, a lot of buyers pick up a direct and store edition these days, and you have people on here saying they'll buy the store or direct editions PLUS the all-black sub if it gets released. You cannot escape what you criticize as long as you provide the means for them to do exactly what you don't want them to do.

With all that said, I love DW. I own every release (with the exception of Twins Of Evil), I have a t-shirt, I have stickers, I have a slipmat...I mean I definitely support DW through and through. I feel like I have to keep saying it, I'm not trying to pick a fight...and my main criticism is not liking what I saw flung out toward the Waxwork release coming from a label that sells multiple variants of every release. So does everyone get that...I'm NOT saying Spencer sucks, so please don't jump me for having a varying opinion! I gladly welcome disagreeing commentary, of course.