[slik]

I do find it interesting, as I love the soundtrack genre. I remember the re-issue of ZFE on DVD and a link to some weird "Death Waltz" site...since then I have been more than impressed with releases from lots of labels. A lot of this because of STBC...
I may be wrong, but my point was about buying records,not really the genre. I do believe there is little difference in the logistics.

[Re-animated Cat]

I do get what you mean. The logistics are roughly the same, only the thing with soundtracks is that the whole process has been accelerated. Whilst the issue is by no means new, I find it interesting because clearly DW are concerned about it and open for a discussion.

Personally, that's one of the main reasons I support DW - because Spencer is always looking to change/evolve the label and listen to people's views. It's been like that right from the start. That's probably the reason why DW will survive after the soundtrack bubble has burst, whilst others almost certainly won't. These discussions are good, y'all!

[liftman2013]

While I see people's concerns for various issues being highlighted here, I don't see it as a huge worry for the future, as these forums prove the love is there for DW, WW, OWS for the long haul

Ive never been a long time comic book fan, but I do buy issues here and there these days, and they still do around 5 different covers for each issue, with at least one being a super rare cover that's one in 100 or only available in a certain area, which then goes on ebay for the highest.

Also, with DVDs. Most films these days have a bare bonus release, and then either an extras laden release later down the line, or released at the same time, or a special directors cut edition etc etc.

So all entertainment media of life has it.

Ive not been collecting Vinyls all my life and have only entered the frame in the last 3 or so years, but have always been a music and horror film fan and DW was the natural progression to me. Yes Ive always liked the variants, these pull me in also, but as long as it doesn't go along the lines of 10 variants will be available 5 years down the line, forcing me to dip time and again, as Spence so rightly puts - let the buyer decide.

Its all the releases of non soundtrack group albums in a special 500 only special colourway that's over-saturated the market, but if you have a long term fan that wants a particular copy let them eat cake is what I say.

For the soundtrack market, its you guys and promises of interesting arrangements like the Frizzi concert etc that will keep me interested in the long run

I think what Im ultimately trying to say Specnce is by all means adjust things to keep up the spice but at the same time don't change too much cos if it ain't broke...

[PaulZaza]

clear solution:

one black and one in colour

and make reasonable limitations

[4000days]

I don't mind outing myself - I nearly always buy 2 copies of the same release of these reissues. Maybe it's just how I "collect" - but vinyl is about much more than purely listening to the music to me - it's about the total package - the look, the smell, the insert, the notes. Now I am totally on board with the whole "the music comes first" sort of ideal. However, in my opinion, it's an art form and is worth preservation. For that reason, I keep 2 copies - with one on the shelf to stay indefinitely and one to play. I do this with classic records as well - from Zeppelin to the Stones to the Beatles, I have pressings from around the world. The cleaner, earlier pressings stay on the shelf and the later pressings are usually the ones I play. Same thing with 50's and 60's jazz LP's.

I agree that the variant thing is getting out of control. I also agree that the bottom is going to fall out of this scene sooner as opposed to later. If you are buying multiple titles because you think they are going to be worth double or triple what you are paying for them now sometime down the road, you're kidding yourself. While I am guilty of being a completist, I kind of wish the nonsense would stop. The vinyl collector in me will always want all the versions released - but I would much rather prefer all the versions being one or *maybe* two at the most. I can't help to feel like some companies know that there are collectors like myself and monopolize on the fact that there are fools that will but the same record over and over again.

I should also post a disclaimer that I sell at record shows, ran a store for 10 years, and am thinking about opening a new one. So maybe in the back of my head I justify buying copies because I know I can *probably* at least get back what I paid for them sometime down the line.

I guess my main points are this - I don't think there is anything wrong with folks who buy a couple of copies, and/or are completists. I saw it frequently when I worked behind the counter of a shop, and it's how I have chosen to go about my personal collection.

At the same time, anything more than 2 variants is unneeded. And quite honestly, I'd be happy with just one version of everything. One version with maybe an insert or something for the first pressing, and then second/third/etc. pressings to follow if demand is there. Just like records used to be pressed ultimately, that would make me and I can only assume others, perfectly happy.

[bitewerks]

I'm at the point that I notice the price before I read about the pretty colors. When I saw that Creepshow was $28 for one record, that killed my interest.

As long as packaging is the same, vinyl color doesn't matter to me. If price is the same & the color is something very interesting, I'll go for it but black is fine with me.

If different variants means the pressing is that much larger, then that's great as I hate pre-ordering & would rather order when the release is in stock, ready to ship.

[Pitch]

Great post!! That really explains the view from the collector of artifact as well as music and I totally get where you are coming from. It's interesting that you'd be happy with one, perhaps two versions - I think this thread will be very useful for our favourite reissue labels to gauge what people are after.

[strangedisc]

The variant thing can get outta hand. Of course, it's cool to get a limited record, and of course a record is more than just a way to listen to tunes, it is by nature a "collectors item". I just hope that more people can look at the whole soundtrack thing with a cooler head. Buy a record cus you wanna jam it! If you happen to get a variant, great! A customer at the record store I work at here in Rochester came in to buy a Halloween soundtrack when it was out. I was just kinda chatting with him about soundtracks and whatnot, and he asked me something along the lines of "You didn't open your copy did you?!" It's like, uhh yeah of course I opened my copy! And I fuckin listened to it!! It's like, if a record you buy is worth money down the road, then cool, that rules. But the reason why a sealed BEATLES record for example is worth so much money is because everybody bought them, listened to them non stop, enjoyed them, scratched the shit out of them, etc. very few people bought a Beatles record to file it away on their shelf and never get put on the turntable.

People, please buy records cus the music on them rules, not because you wanna make $40 reselling them in like 5 years! I mean it hardly seems worth the effort! This stuff is supposed to be FUN! Yowza!

[DISCOSUCKS...]

Love this. Strange Disc speak heap truth.

[chandler75]

I rarely buy duplicates, but I occasionally buy two or (very very rarely) more variants.

I don't really think two variants and a regular edition, like OWS and DW usually do, are too much or will ruin the industry. I like to take out the different variants, look at them, admire them and putting them on the turntable.

With most records, however, I just get one version - I only have one version of the new DWs (the subs). I only ordered one of the variants of "Cannibal Ferox", but might get the regular edition because I really like the cover, the music and how the whole release looks to turn out.

Basically, I don't think DW or OWS have done wrong or really need to take a big step back. I think it's fun to see what they come up with - also in regard to different variants. Mondo's variant chase game might be a little questionable, and the same might be said about releasing five different variants, but again, I don't really see it as a critical problem. I think most people are starting to accept not getting a variant and just order one copy to enjoy the music.

[tonyandrewgiles]

I'm with @strangedisc & @discosucks - my records are for playing, not reselling.

[Dagon]

I like that this topic has got its own thread. I get Spencer's and Seb's concerns, and know that, from a business-owner's PoV, they have to look at what is feasable for them in the future. So far, the renewal of interest in soundtracks has sustained the whole variant business, but it will probably only last so long until the newness wears off.

This will vary from one collector to another, as there are so many different types, from the completist to the I-only-need-the-music-collector, so I can only really speak for myself. I have a comfortable budget to spend on my hobbies every month, but it will still only get me so far, if I spend it between my different areas of collecting (records, dvds, comics, books in general). As far as vinyl goes, the music is to me the most important, sound quality comes next, then price. A nice cover and presentation is always a plus, but it's not gonna make me buy or not buy somethin ... vinyl color does not really factor in a lot.

So I decide if I really like a soundtrack, then I think about what I want to pay for it ... to me, 30€ (including shipping) is a threshold for new vinyls; above that, I really have to love the music. That's why I decided not to buy the Creepshow soundtrack, the music itself did not tempt me enough for the price.

This will of course vary from person to person ... some really like nice variants, and I can't blame them, some really look awesome. But I figure there are so many soundtracks out there that I love, probably more that I have never heard, but would love if I heard them, that I have to find a clever way to spend my limited funds across as many soundtracks as possible. If I have to spend 40-45€ on a new record, with shipping, but could find for the same money 3-5 good soundtracks at a local store, it's hard to spend it all on one record.

That's why I like Finders Keepers' approach ... 15£ on a simple, black vinyl record, which gives me the possibility of doing some blind buys for not too much money, and that's why I hope Spencer can make the black subscription happen ... it would enable me to take more risks towards film scores I am not familiar with.

I hope I didn't ramble on for too long ... this thread had a lot of information to take in, and I wanted to give my take on it. Cheers

[AndreasEldritch]

RE: DW quote: < I think within the year the whole soundtrack market will collapse as it cant sustain the amount of variants it is producing (Unless labels are getting new folks into the scene – which I don’t think is happening ) >

Spencer - on the second point: it is happening. I'm new to the scene as a direct result of the new soundtrack labels. I've now bought every DW release (admittedly I"ve since sold a few that I don't like).

I'd never bought a single soundtrack album before seeing articles about DW. 90% of records I now buy are soundtracks. You may find it interesting to know that I hate the majority of horror films (especially the bloody gore ones) - I'm purely interested in the atmospheric music.

I'd got bored of the latest generation of indie/rock bands so wanted to broaden my tastes and really found the premise of DW very interesting. Discovering all these amazing records from DW and other labels has reignited my passion for music. I bet I'm not the only newbie for soundtracks over the past few years.

[ghostfires]

Spencer - you say it makes you angry to see people buying multiple copies of vinyl to get different colourways....why is it then that it's ok for you to have two copies of One Way Static's release of Last House? I'm not trying to be a dick about this at all, I just feel like with all the preaching toward us consumers of your products...why aren't you consistent with your message?

[seb]

Ghostfires, I gave Spencer two copies of Last House... We trade releases between labels.
Simple explanation but true

[ghostfires]

I don't doubt that. I kinda called Spencer on that before when he was telling us to not complain so much about Mondo because he's cool with the guy that runs it.

you guys that run the labels get the A+ treatment, so it isn't quite fair for us to be lectured by you guys on how to buy your products when you guys don't actually have to. I would assume almost all of you have trades set up between each other to get whatever the other wants most of the time, correct? That doesn't bother me if that's true, what bothers me is when someone that built their business initially off of selling color variants is now telling us, the consumers that actually spend our money to support your work, that we make him angry because we continue to do what made him a success in the first place.

[jgibbs4053]

I have a couple variants of diff albums (2 WW Rosemay's Baby,2 WW Creepshow, 2 OWS Cannibal Ferox.)Eventually I plan on buying a 2nd version of Return of the Living Dead and that is due since my copy is the pic disc version. I own these duplicates cuz most of them are some of my fav movies except for Creepshow. I bought 2 of these cuz i thought the 2 looked cool.

[Pitch]

[quote=15587]what bothers me is when someone that built their business initially off of selling color variants is now telling us, the consumers that actually spend our money to support your work, that we make him angry because we continue to do what made him a success in the first place.
[/quote]

I think you are being slightly unfair to Spencer! Firstly - he said he was upset rather than angry - an important difference. Secondly - he never said that any choice of variants was wrong, but that things were getting out of control. Now there are examples of 5,6,even 7 variants all feeding something that Spencer didn't predict - that some folk don't just choose one variant (which initially would seem a predictable outcome) but have to buy them all. That is, I think, what has made both DW and OWS reassess their strategy moving forward. I'm sure there will be choices including fun colour variants, but not an escalation of multiple variants. Surely that's something we as consumer's should be thankful for? Completists can complete without going bankrupt, and music lovers can look forward to focus on fantastic releases continuing, without the distraction of the colour funfair drowning them out.

[Ignatius]

The only two albums I've ever bought specifically bought duplicates of were ones that mean a great deal to me, and were produced in a limited enough quantity that I worry about my original copy wearing out through over-use or being accidentally damaged. It's not about having a pristine copy to sit on the shelf, but an insurance policy so I'll always have a copy to slip on the turntable and listen to.

The only variants I get are from the Graveface Records label, which is the label that originally got me into buying vinyl a few years ago. Like DW, he does seperate colourways for Record Club and retail and offers the retail variants to Record Clubbers at cost price, which is a good enough deal for me to jump on it. I've always appreciated the way he uses the packaging and artwork to complement the art of the music being presented, and I find his choice of record colours fits into that as well. I've never been tempted to buy variants of anything else, even if I were there's no way I could justify the cost to myself.

I can certainly understand why folks like DW and OWS would be eager to put out a few variants, if you've got 3 awesome ideas for a release of a score you love why not just do all of them?, but creating variants for their own sake or deliberately pandering to a particular market is definitely the wrong way to go. What I'd to be interested to know is if deliberately reducing your variant offerings in order to dissuade people from buying multiple copies ends up noticeably impacting your bottom line in the long run. Is the market still small enough that collectors play a significant role in making a label sustainable?

[ghostfires]

Upset and angry sound like the same thing to me. Especially when it is used to lecture. Maybe I'm totally wrong...

[scottydoo]

Ghostfires I think you've slightly miss understood Spencer's point in this thread (as far as I understand it) he's not upset with the customers buying multiples it's more in the state of the industry /how labels that are releasing these variants are forcing customers trying to get a specific variant to end up buying multiple unwanted colours in the hopes of getting what they actually wanted in the first place which in turn means that releases are selling out much quicker than they should have .
Take the recent creepshow release yes it was expensive and yes their were far too many variants but you only have to spend a few minutes reading the waxwerk thread to see that most people were allot happier with that onsale than others recently because you had the opinion to pick the colour you wanted (simple I know) without limited numbers clouding your judgement or wether you were quick enough to get such and such (basically no idea what would turn up on your door step) it just took away that stressful edge to the process so you could focus more on getting excited for buying a record you wanted without a tinge of disappointment

[Re-animated Cat]

I don't get it, Spencer certainly didn't come across as angry to me. He's simply doing what any sensible business owner should be doing - opening a dialogue with his customers and evolving his company in line with the market. My personal view is that the soundtrack bubble will burst by the end of the year. It just isn't sustainable. Spencer is simply trying to get his business in order before that happens.

It is definitely true that DW has been guilty of profiting from the whole variants thing, and Spencer's partly to blame for the mess it's become. So yes, it's a little hypocritical of him (and of OWS too, who are complaining about variants whilst at the same time promoting yet another variant for RSD). However, credit where it's due, these guys are holding their hands up and looking into alternatives. Running a label, like any business, is a learning process so people need to cut them some slack sometimes!

So I think Spencer is in a difficult position - he helped start the soundtrack revival, but he's also partly responsible for the thing that will probably kill it. Not to mention the copyist labels that seem to be springing up everywhere and saturating the market (I mean, 5 versions of one release - come on, guys!).

I'll willingly admit that in recent times the "super limited exclusive" marketing and variety of editions has made me lose interest in DW a fair bit (and in soundtracks in general). Fancy limited editions are cool, but I think the key to all of it is simplicity. There's just too much choice for anything to feel 'special' anymore.

I do wonder though how any changes will affect the label's bottom line. Remember that rabid collectors and (I'm afraid to say) record flippers are probably more crucial to the survival of a niche label than anyone might like to admit.

Just my thoughts anyway. I've no doubt that whatever route Spencer decides to go, it'll make DW a better label.

[ghostfires]

I'm not saying that he shouldn't change his strategy with his business. It's his business and he has every right like any capitalist venture does. I don't take issue at all with that.

All I see is that he posts multiple copies of a newer reissue, then I read on here he's questioning one of his loyal customers as to why they bought multiple copies of a record and what they plan to do with it. Honestly - who gives a fuck what they do with it?! You can't have it both ways - sell whatever you feel like selling AND tell consumers how to consume it. It's just really aggrevating to see behavior like that..."don't follow what I did to make my business a success because then I won't be a success any more" is how it comes across to me...it's just too hypocritical in my eyes.

I didn't see it as opening a dialog - I saw it as someone that's realizing another shift could be coming in the vinyl business, and he is using this forum to shape the opinion of his buyers to sway in the direction that would be most profitable for his venture, damn anyone else's.

I understand the whole issue with creating lots of variants - I buy one copy sometimes, other times I buy two - not because I hope to flip, but because I like two or three versions. You can't create three to five versions of each release ( which DW is totally guilty of) and then try to get onto customers for buying multiples because they like several versions. Don't make them look great, we wouldn't buy multiples. Don't damn the next label that comes in and does the same thing. I mean four or five versions of The Fog is brilliant, but six or seven versions of Creepshow is too much?! You guys mean to tell me that this whole reissue thing is swinging on the opinion of one person at this point to determine what is right and wrong?

[NathanLurker]

You're taking this too seriously Ghost. I don't see an issue with someone asking another person why they buy multiple copies. That is NOT telling people what to do.

[ghostfires]

It didn't seem contradictory and condescending at all to anyone else?